Stainless/Non-stainless: How to Test ?

[Gunsil]

This is a reversible necklace pendant, sterling and 18K with an ocean jasper stone I cut and polished myself and an aquamarine which I purchased. Again, all parts made by hand. This was another gift.

[doglegg]

Excellent work Gunsil. I've seen nothing so far that isn't awesome. Thanks.

[bighomer]

This is a reversible necklace pendant, sterling and 18K with an ocean jasper stone I cut and polished myself and an aquamarine which I purchased. Again, all parts made by hand. This was another gift.

DSCN2332.JPGDSCN2333.JPG

Absolutely gorgeous work Gene, Wow x 10. By the way how are you doing health wise with the covid crap. My BIL is still weak but recovering.

[kootenay joe]

I tried to buy some Gun Blue today to test for stainless/non-stainless, but no business around here carries it, not even WalMart. I bet i could find it in most small towns in USA but the border is closed to all except "essential" travel. I will have to wait for border to re-open to do my steel testing.
kj

[just bob]

Roland you can buy most anything on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Formual-44-40- ... m48e4960bb

[cbfd]

Great work, Gene! Very nice.

[Colonel26]

Gene, that is amazing work! Very nice.

[kootenay joe]

Roland you can buy most anything on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Formual-44-40- ... m48e4960bb

Thanks Bob. Shipping is the issue here. I have a P.O. Box in Northport, WA. which i use for ebay items as most USA sellers will not ship to Canada. With the border closed due to Covid i cannot get to the Northport P.O. where i have knives that have been there since early March.
I will message the seller to ask about shipping to Canada just in case they are one of the few who will.
kj

[Old Folder]

Beautiful work Gunsil.
Can't all Stainless Steels rust?
Perhaps that's why they call them stain-less, not stain-free.
The stainless alloys will always have their place in the kitchen, in the factory, in the lab, in the air, and out in the ocean, even outside our atmosphere?

[eveled]

I tried to buy some Gun Blue today to test for stainless/non-stainless, but no business around here carries it, not even WalMart. I bet i could find it in most small towns in USA but the border is closed to all except "essential" travel. I will have to wait for border to re-open to do my steel testing.
kj

You could probably do the same thing with almost anything that will cause a patina on steel. A drop of mustard, a tiny piece of onion etc. I think gun blue is very similar to a patina in that it is not a coating, but a reaction. That’s why it doesn’t completely prevent rust, or chip off.

Another option is to take a sample and put it in a drop of vinegar. A little filing or sanding dust might be easy to get if you are working on the piece anyway.

It would actually be pretty interesting to try it with shaving/filings of known metals to see the different reactions when dropped into drops of vinegar on a plate. Maybe I’ll try that with my kids.

[Gunsil]

This is a reversible necklace pendant, sterling and 18K with an ocean jasper stone I cut and polished myself and an aquamarine which I purchased. Again, all parts made by hand. This was another gift.

DSCN2332.JPGDSCN2333.JPG

Absolutely gorgeous work Gene, Wow x 10. By the way how are you doing health wise with the covid crap. My BIL is still weak but recovering.

Thanks for all your appreciation of my work!! Bighomer, thanks for asking. I am pretty much recovered, was eight weeks to feel somewhat normal again. Now I seem to be having some heart palpitation and high heartbeat troubles which may be lingering effects of the covid. Glad to hear you BIL is doing well, this virus is really tough on some folks including myself, but we already have over 100,000dead in our fine country and it seems some areas are increasing infection so who knows where it will go. Dang glad to be alive, I'll tell you that!!

[cody6268]

I've heard some people say they can tell by smell. I can't. I've only been able to smell the oil I used (especially gun oil--you can clear a room with the Birchwood Casey stuff!) or the wood used as the handle material.

[royal0014]

I've heard some people say they can tell by smell. I can't. I've only been able to smell the oil I used (especially gun oil--you can clear a room with the Birchwood Casey stuff!) or the wood used as the handle material.

I can see that if you're grinding or otherwise heating the metal.
And you can determine some properties of the steel by the sparks it throws while being ground.

[bighomer]

This is a reversible necklace pendant, sterling and 18K with an ocean jasper stone I cut and polished myself and an aquamarine which I purchased. Again, all parts made by hand. This was another gift.

DSCN2332.JPGDSCN2333.JPG

Absolutely gorgeous work Gene, Wow x 10. By the way how are you doing health wise with the covid crap. My BIL is still weak but recovering.

Thanks for all your appreciation of my work!! Bighomer, thanks for asking. I am pretty much recovered, was eight weeks to feel somewhat normal again. Now I seem to be having some heart palpitation and high heartbeat troubles which may be lingering effects of the covid. Glad to hear you BIL is doing well, this virus is really tough on some folks including myself, but we already have over 100,000dead in our fine country and it seems some areas are increasing infection so who knows where it will go. Dang glad to be alive, I'll tell you that!!

Glad to hear you feeling better. Godspeed.

[btrwtr]

304 and 316 steel are not used for knife blades. They can not be hardened by heat treating.

Beautiful work Gene!

[just bob]

304 and 316 steel are not used for knife blades. They can not be hardened by heat treating.

Beautiful work Gene!

Wayne I have a lot of respect for you, my friend, but this isn't right. I found this on ebay in 30 seconds. There are way more and also some on Google.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sea-Dog-Riggin ... 0010.m2109

I have also seen many other fixed blade knives made from 304. It was common where I worked for people to buy small scrap pcs. and make knives. The fact is many instruments in operating rooms like scalpels and clamps are also made from 304 and 316. I think the main reason knives aren't mass produced in 304 and 316 is the cost. Type 304 is also called 18% - 8% steel because it is 18% chrome and 8% nickel. At one time in the 1990's nickel was over $20 a pound. It has fallen a lot, but types 410 and 440 stainless are still far cheaper.

[just bob]

I might also add that hall of fame knife maker Billy Mace Imel is from the same city I am and he had connections to the factory where I worked. I have been told that one of the foremen bought scrap pcs for him to experiment with. If you look at his knives he has used a wide range of metals on his blades from A2 to 440 SS. Some of these may have actually came from scrap boxes.

[ea42]

Bob the 300 series steels are austenitic steels and are not hardenable through quenching. They won't work for a knife with a cutting edge as they don't have near enough carbon. A table knife to spread butter yes but not a knife meant for actual cutting use. They might be referring to the handles on that Ebay knife. Either that or the blades are virtually useless. 301 will work harden but even then it'll only max out around RC40 or so, just about good enough for a spring but not a knife blade. A2 is tool steel and 440 is part of the 400 series of martensitic stainless steels. Both are hardenable and make excellent blades. Scalpels and many razor blades are often made of high carbon 1095 or AEB-L stainless. Any fixed blades made of 304 would be strictly for show as they won't cut and would likely bend and dent under any pressure.

Eric

[just bob]

Bob the 300 series steels are austenetic steels and are not hardenable through quenching. They won't work for a knife with a cutting edge. A table knife to spread butter yes but not a knife meant for actual cutting use. They might be referring to the handles on that Ebay knife. Either that or the blades are virtually useless. 301 will work harden but even then it'll only max out around RC40 or so, just about good enough for a spring but not a knife blade. A2 is tool steel and 440 is part of the 400 series of stainless steel. Both are hardenable and make excellent blades.

Eric

I don't mean to argue with you and stray too far from the OP. but please explain the Ebay knife and the many other knives available on line (there are many) made from type 304 stainless. It certainly doesn't look like a butter knife to me, nor do the others that I see.

Also look at this link where they say type 316L is excellent steel for holding an edge on medical scalpels. Please explain? I know who our customers were where I used to work and know for a fact at least back then that we sold a lot of steel to medical supply houses and manufacturers that made their parts. No doubt newer types may be available today, but the 304 and 316 at one time were used for cutting tools.


https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6641


Medical / Surgical Stainless steel
For surgical stainless steel, specific grades of Stainless steel - 316 and 316L are predominantly used. By alloying the elements Chromium, Nickel and Molybdenum Stainless steel offers the material scientist and surgeon some uniquely reliable qualities.
Chromium - heightens the materials scratch resistance and corrosion resistance - perfect for cleaning and sterilization.
Nickel - provides an extremely smooth and polish able surface - fine details required for machining precision, high quality products etc. Also important for hygiene.
Molybdenum - provides hardness after forming and is great for sharp cutting edges - scalpel

[cody6268]

I have a Wichard which is made from 304SS (same which they use for their marine rigging) and it seems to take and hold an edge as well as 420 or 420J2. In other words, not the best, but it does cut. I use it for corrosive work around gasoline and other solvents. It's a good steel for what it is--extra corrosion resistance, without getting into the high cost of cobalt steels, as used by Spyderco and David Boye.

[ea42]

Bob like I said they may be referring to the handles on that Ebay knife, at least I certainly hope they are. 304 would make excellent corrosion resistant handles for marine use. 316L is great for medical equipment, valves, pans etc but I've never seen it used for surgical blades unless there's some special medical need for it where they use a specialized super expensive boron based hardening method that I'm not aware of. Most all of the surgical cutlery instruments are made of 420 or 440 stainless as well as 17-4 stainless. You really need martensitic steel for blades, and 300 series is not martensitic. There's really no way around it. Any blade made of 300 series steel would be awful and i really wouldn't want to give people the impression that it's useful for that purpose. They'd really be disappointed if they went out and spent the money on it then went through the trouble to make a blade only to find out that it's useless.

Eric

[ea42]

Cody what Wichard knife uses 304 for the blade steel? The lowest grade I've seen on their site is 420. Many there are better grade.

Eric

[just bob]

https://www.amazon.com/XS-Scuba-Neuro-S ... B06XRQ9KNG


https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel- ... B006K2GRPE

Marine Grade 316 stainless steel is similar to Grade 304, but it has one important extra ingredient: molybdenum. This is a hard, silver-white metallic element used to toughen steel. This enables Marine Grade 316 scuba diving knives to maintain their super-sharp edges for longer periods of time, plus it increases corrosion-resistance. SCUBAPRO’s premier dive knife, the TK 15, offers a six-inch Marine Grade 316 stainless steel blade. The blade surface is specifically polished so that water can drain easily to further prevent oxidation. Also, the thickness of the knife’s stainless steel is consistent from one end to the other, creating a high level of stiffness and strength.

https://www.diversdirect.com/p/scubapro ... -stainless

There are many more

[ea42]

I see one of the reviews for the scuba neuro is "Does not stay sharp and the metal is very soft." I can see where salt water corrosion would be a more important factor than steel hardness and 304 is super corrosion resistant, but none of those knives would hold an edge for long. Another quote from "The Sailing Knife: A Compendium of Knives Devoted to the Nautical Life" - "Because the 300 series is non-hardenable (non-Martensitic), they are primarily used in entry level dive knives and used as the outer layers in a San Mai blade", and another "316 Stainless Steel: Grade 316 is the standard molybdenum-bearing grade stainless steel, second in importance to 304 amongst the austenitic (non-magnetic) stainless steels. It is a surgical stainless steel. The molybdenum gives 316 better overall corrosion resistant properties than Grade 304, particularly higher resistance to pitting and crevice corrosion in chloride environments. The steel is non magnetic and makes a lousy knife blade. However, 316 is often used for other knife materials where edge retention is not required but corrosion resistance is highly valued. For this reason, it is a U.S. Military standard for marlin spikes on folding rigger knives used by the Navy and Coast Guard." and another "The U.S. Navy requires 420HC for the sheepfoot blade but allows 316 SS for the marlin spike, which is too soft for edge retention but hard enough to allow for a sharp point. It is also almost impervious to rust. This makes 316 SS a good choice for liners as it is less likely to corrode than brass. 316 SS is an austenitic (non metallic) steel. If a magnet will not stick to your marlin spike it is probably 316 stainless but not a real concern. If a magnet will not stick to your steel knife blade, your knife is garbage." Like I said I've never seen a high quality production knife made of any 300 series steel. I use it for bolsters and liners. I'm not going to argue the point, to each his own.

Eric

[cody6268]

Cody what Wichard knife uses 304 for the blade steel? The lowest grade I've seen on their site is 420. Many there are better grade.

Eric

Some older offerings for the most part; which were recently discontinued in favor of the Aquaterra and Offshore which use decent cutlery steels. Mine is model 10052 But, apparently where I got my info from was wrong. I just noticed what they used was 316L; yet one of the places I'd had bookmarked said 304SS.