Pine Knot E-toe

[ObsidianEdge]

There's a single-blade Pine Knot on Scott King's website with the same "worm groove" jigging. It's on the index page. One of the Chatillon's on his site also has the same bone and so does his McIntosh Heather.

http://www.elephanttoenails.com/index.html

[Miller Bro's]

I cannot get the picture on that site to enlarge

Here is what he posted about the knife:

Handle Material: Bone Blade Etching:
Closed Length: 4 1/2 " Shield: NS (no shield)
Appearance: Jigged Worm Groove Color: Tan
Pattern #: 540? Additional Features:
Match Stiker: Long Pull Pull: Double
Style: Standard
Comments: Pine Knot with bird head logo on tangs of both blades. c. 1930- 1934 The back tang of the master blade is stamped 540? Trademark Belknap Hdw. Louisville, KY. Made by Union Knife Works, then later by Robeson.

[peanut740]

With best regards to Scott, there is some misinformation on his site.He has info from several different sources and some ain't up to snuff.

[peanut740]

MB that pine knot on Scott's site wasn't made by Union in my opinion.

[ObsidianEdge]

While the pictures are small and fuzzy, my point was that the same bone appears on other knives.

Levine and Goins have different dates on Pine Knot, but it does look like an earlier knife to me.

[Miller Bro's]

Hard for me to see anything on that picture, wish I could enlarge it somehow

[Miller Bro's]

Peanut, what is the length of your Chatillon knives?

[peanut740]

All are 4 1/4".

[Miller Bro's]

Thanks, that is the length of the three on the e-toe site.

Now we need to know what the length of the Pine Knot is from Mike.

[Miller Bro's]

This knife has taken on a life of it`s own so I have created a separate thread for further discussion on the subject.

[junebug]

just my PERSONAL OPINION........again please read JUST MY OPINION!

TONY BOSE ERR NOT....THIS KNIFE IS A FAKE!
heck even JOE BLOW REGULAR GUY hates to admit he got had....how about a PRO????

there was no "ONE OFF" E-TOES back in the day , we all know that...............
just too many KNOWLEDGEABLE folks,collectors, on the internet and shows to not have any idea on this one knife.................then again this was just posted the other day,and i could be wrong ..lololololol

just sayin- NOT LIKELY TO BE REAL, SORRY. MADE TO LOOK OLD......YEP!


NOTE- i do not own or know this BRAND....this is my GUT feeling, just from looking at the knife.

[ObsidianEdge]

While the pictures aren’t that great on Scott’s site, it does appear as though those knives have the same “unknown” bone that are on Tony’s.

How would someone fake an old toenail, including the swedges, nail nicks, fine matchstrike pull, bone and stamp? I think that would even exceed Bret Van Winkle’s skill level. Does it look like the “fake” Pine Knot has been re-struck over another company’s name?

I did recently ask Scott King about another toenail that was different than others I had seen by the same company (Napanoch.) He said he had personal experience with legit “one off” toenails. I have not asked his permission to post his email, so I’m paraphrasing what he wrote.

Junebug, you are willing to discount the “knowledgeable” people that handled the knife at the show and “go with your gut.” OK. Who knows, maybe there are people out there that that would take some pleasure in saying that Tony was wrong. That seems to go against the learning, asking, and growing part of discussing knives on a forum.

As we all know, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I’ll stick with Tony’s (years of building knives, taking apart vintage patterns, etc.) opinion and the dealers at the show that vetted the knife in person.

Signing off on this one.

[Ramrod]

While the pictures aren’t that great on Scott’s site, it does appear as though those knives have the same “unknown” bone that are on Tony’s.

How would someone fake an old toenail, including the swedges, nail nicks, fine matchstrike pull, bone and stamp? I think that would even exceed Bret Van Winkle’s skill level. Does it look like the “fake” Pine Knot has been re-struck over another company’s name?

I did recently ask Scott King about another toenail that was different than others I had seen by the same company (Napanoch.) He said he had personal experience with legit “one off” toenails. I have not asked his permission to post his email, so I’m paraphrasing what he wrote.

Junebug, you are willing to discount the “knowledgeable” people that handled the knife at the show and “go with your gut.” OK. Who knows, maybe there are people out there that that would take some pleasure in saying that Tony was wrong. That seems to go against the learning, asking, and growing part of discussing knives on a forum.

As we all know, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I’ll stick with Tony’s (years of building knives, taking apart vintage patterns, etc.) and the dealers at the show that vetted the knife in person.

Signing off on this one.

Yep.
Huge difference between in hand and a picture...
Mark

[junebug]

YER so right sir. i do not have this knife in hand....and that MAY change ma GUT FEELIN' on this knife PICTURED
NO disrespect meant.........at all!
just shootin the breeze bout knives

[peanut740]

I'm confident this originally was/is an old knife.l don't know if it is the original stamp.The Pine Knot's I''ve seen were well worn and were what I would call cheaper made common patterns.

[knifetime]

I have not got a clue one way or another. If I was going strictly on the comparison pics of the tang at the start of this thread I would say it looks wrong. You would think Mr Bose would know his knives but he suits up one leg at a time just like the rest of us so he could be wrong but if I was a betting man I would say he was right.
It is hard to say from the pics and even harder when you are unfamiliar with the knife. Just my 2 cents.

[stockman]

I'm confident this originally was/is an old knife.l don't know if it is the original stamp.The Pine Knot's I''ve seen were well worn and were what I would call cheaper made common patterns.

I agree with peanut, I thought from the start of this deal it was a fine
old knife, and probably a Pine Knot. The biggest problem I see, is it
belongs to Tony and not me.

[knifetime]

I'm confident this originally was/is an old knife.l don't know if it is the original stamp.The Pine Knot's I''ve seen were well worn and were what I would call cheaper made common patterns.

I agree with peanut, I thought from the start of this deal it was a fine
old knife, and probably a Pine Knot. The biggest problem I see, is it
belongs to Tony and not me.

Lol is'nt that the truth.

[peanut740]

I was at this show.The guy that had it was at the show on the first day and saw I had several old toes on my table and we talked for sometime. The next day he came and took the Pine Knot to Tony and sold it to him.l didn't know about it until Sunday and didn't get to see it, Tony had already left.If it had got around to me l would have been interested.l also would have taken it to a couple other guys to get it their opinions.l''ve had my ass burnt before and it don't feel too good.It's been awhile but I've hopefully have learned my lesson.

[wlf]

I wish I had it ,Tony's got a couple farmers jacks I'd like to have.

[Beechtree]

While I don't agree that it is authentic, I do not doubt Tony's knowledge of knives. Here is an old Pine Knot JNO. W. PRICE which I do believe is authentic. It would be great to get some more examples, especially with bone scales.

[Miller Bro's]

As we all know, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I’ll stick with Tony’s (years of building knives, taking apart vintage patterns, etc.) opinion and the dealers at the show that vetted the knife in person.

Signing off on this one.

Too bad you can`t supply me with the closeup picture of the tang stamp I requested or what the length of the knife in question is. You stick with your opinion, and now I am going to give you mine.

I will have to make due with the pictures I have to work with.

The major difference I see in the originals versus the fakes is:

First, the size of the bird head, the original is narrow the fakes are wide and do not resemble the original at all. I have also seen an original Pine Knot knife box with the same narrow bird head, matching the original tang stamps.

Second, look at the signature at the bottom, on the original the cursive writing flows evenly, the letter "O" connects to the letter "W" of the middle initial. The fakes all have the letter "W" separate from the adjacent letter "O", the cursive does not match.

Third, I have seen 5 originals so far with the recent addition of Beechtree`s example, all the tang stamps match very closely, some like on my example the stamp is off struck and it did not impress deeply or completely as many old originals will often do.

Look at the posted fakes, the tang stamps are all deeply and perfectly struck.

I went through the trouble, though I don`t know why I bother to do this stuff, to make a series of comparison photos for your viewing pleasure however the first one I made 2 years ago shows the difference in tang stamps the best and is really all you need as a reference IMO.

Thanks go out to Charlie Noyes and all the other members here whose knives I used to make the comparison photos

[stockman]

MB, I appreciate your knowledge and you diligence. Also your
resources to check these things out for us. I could not see the
tang stamps clear until your last post. The old toe is still a nice
knife. What is it? Again thanks for your efforts.

Harold

[Beechtree]

Yes MB, I also really appreciate the effort. I know it takes quite a bit of time to get together, especially because the research work has been done even before you post these great reference pictures. This is a great reference and is a valuable asset to any who are trying to identify old Pine Knots.

[knifetime]

All I can say MB is you have a very good point. They are not the same at all,big deference in bird head size and font.
Like I said before "one leg at a time" just like the rest of us.