Old Elephant Toenails/Sunfish Pattern Knives

[Bret888]

JIC, That is a beauty! So are they others in your gallery!

[just in case]

Bret, Your case XX red bone you have is my favorite. That thing looks like its glowing.

[robinetn]

My sunfish.

Jason , That is one of the hardest "toes" to find . I searched for about 5 years to find a good one . By the way , Leroy said that he enjoyed your visit and looked forward to future correspondence concerning Browne & Pharr .
Bob

[just in case]

Bob, Thanks for the info on my toe.I did not know that. And thanks for hooking me up with Leroy.That made my day.

[Miller Bro's]

I forgot I had this one

[danno50]

MB, can't believe you would forget you had a knife as great as that Case Bros.

Dan

[Miller Bro's]

Here is an old Case Brothers Little Valley N.Y. 1890`s.

It is a relic, the pen blade was replaced long ago, the pins are steel and are staked.


Still interesting to look at

[WelderBob]

MB looks like someone got their money's worth on that one...

This Barnsley Bros has been in our family longer than I have...

[Miller Bro's]

Wow!

That is a beauty Bob

[thegreedygulo]

You guys have some outstanding old elephant toenails! I'm sure you all are already aware of this website, but if not, you should check out Scott King's website: http://www.elephanttoenails.com

Here's my small group of elephant toenails. All are H. Boker & Co's Improved Cutlery except the last one; It's a Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett & Co.

[Miller Bro's]

Gulo,

All are very nice!

The pearl knife has no handle pins? Is that original

[thegreedygulo]

Yes, the handles are original to the knife. If you look closely you can see some "flea bites" on the pearl edges which gives a good indication that it's old pearl. Also, in my opinion, the fit & finish of the pearl is too good to be replacements. I actually thought the same thing as you when I first saw the knife, but after doing some research and having some knowledgeable knife guys look at it; Everyone came to the same conclusion that the handles are original to the knife.

The knife was originally part of the A.B. Haines collection. He had a large, and widely considered, the best elephant toenail collection around for a number of years. At the time, Mr. Haines toenail collection was believed to be the largest single collection of toenails known to exist. If interested, you can read an interview with Mr. Haines talking about his collection and knife collecting in general at http://www.elephanttoenails.com Once on the webpage, click on old timers at the top of the page. You will then see his name listed under interviews at bottom of the page. I am the second owner of the knife after Mr. Haines.

Now with all that said, we are talking about a very old knife, so I guess anything's possible.

[wazu013]

I can't pick out which one I like the best. Worm groove, Ebony, Pearl. Good stuff Folks

[RobesonsRme.com]

I think the bone on that first Boker is about as nice as one can get. That jigging pattern is tops!

MB, Greedy; I get the impression of an about 1/2" indent between the mid-portion of the bolsters and the pearl handles. I suspect some kind of patented fastening mechanism of which I am not aware.

I'd like to see some close-ups of those areas.

Outstanding knives, all!

Charlie Noyes

[orvet]

I have a question for those of you here who are Elephant Toenail fans.
This weekend I went to a local flea market. A fellow I know there who deals mostly with Military collectables showed me a Case XX 10-dot elephant toenail. I would sat it was in Excellent condition per NKCA standards. He was wondering what he should ask for it. I don’t know Case well enough to give him a meaningful price.

Do any of you know what such a knife might sell for?
Sorry, I don’t have the knife or a pic. Just looking for a ballpark price range for the knife in Excellent condition.

I hate questions like this, but I told him I would do the best I could for him on a price. He is an older gentleman and doesn’t know how to use a computer.

Thank you in advance,
Dale

[Knife Nut]

Dale, in mint condition......books at $175.
Excellent condition i've seen them sell for $85-110 at auctions.

Paul

[orvet]

Thanks Paul.
I really had no idea as I don't follow that pattern or the Case brand.
I was really out of my element. I was able to help him on a couple other knives though.
Ishowed him how to save a knife he thought was a loss, with a simple fix, (good old rust erasers).

[Owd Wullie]

I'm here to tell ya, that old Barnsley Bros of Bob's is a DAYUMM neat old knife. I've held that one up close. It's a sweetheart.

I sure like the H.S.& B. toe. Got some honest "neighborhood" on it.

[thegreedygulo]

Hi RobesonsRme,
I enlarged the pictures of the pearl toenail and I THINK what you are seeing is some flea-bites to the pearl on one end, which gives the impression of indentations and maybe a little reflection on the other end. I'll try & get some close-ups of those areas as soon as I get a chance.

I am presently trying to get in contact with one of the earlier owners of the knife to try & get some more history about it. Hopefully he can tell me exactly how the handles are held on as well. In my honest opinion, the handles are original to the knife. I have seen other old pearl H. Boker knives that have handles without any exposed rivets such as the knife below. Even though it is a figural knife, it is a fairly wide knife (1/2" or >) due to all the blades and tools. As you can see, there are no exposed rivets on it either. It looks like the handles are just stuck to the liners. I will get back to you regarding this whenever I can get some additional info.

By the way, that salesman's sample, Robeson swell-center toenail of yours is one KILLER looking knife!

[Miller Bro's]

I remember seeing a patent drawing on a patent for securing handles to a knife. Basically the bolster is dovetailed or under cut on the edge facing the handle then the handle, be it wood, pearl, etc. is beveled the same way on each bolster and the handle material will slide right between the bolsters and be held in place. I suppose they used some type of glue to hold it in place as well.

I seen a Case Tested pearl handle knife posted here using this technique.

[thegreedygulo]

That would make sense. I also thought the knife makers may have used a short or partial rivet that would not be visible on the outside of the handle to help hold the pearl on. At one time I had some newer pearl bokers that had no exposed rivets and have also seen it on others brands. I will try & get some more info. on this.

[RobesonsRme.com]

I think MB and Greedy are on to something with the pearl handles without pins. I suspect, like Greedy suggested, a pair of short stabilizing pins behind the scales and beveled/overlapping bolster edges.

Robeson sold knives without handle pins, but they were secured by overlapping nickle-silver liners and bolsters, as in the example below.

Greedy, call me Charlie, it will save some typing.

And thanks for the props on my Robeson swell-center. It is, indeed, a very impressive knife. As far as I know, Robeson was the only maker to offer toenails with two backsprings like on a moose.

Charlie Noyes

[Miller Bro's]

Charlie,

I think this explains it very well, read it carefully, that guy Cooper was a pretty clever man

http://www.google.com/patents?id=igpjAA ... &q&f=false

From what I understand back in the day there was a lot of breakage of handle material when it was pinned to the liners. Pearl and Ivory were expensive even back then when it was fairly plentiful. To eliminate waste a better system had to be found to secure these handle materials to a knife. This is just one of the ways it was done.

[galvanic1882]

I just got this one last week in a trade and man it is nice. Cattaraugus Cutlery

[dcgm4]

Wow! Absolutely gorgeous!