Old and Obscure Brands

[Miller Bro's]

hate putting one away when i dont even know the country

looks like its from Germany

[paulsvintage]

hate putting one away when i dont even know the country

looks like its from Germany

thanks, thanks for the response appreciate it

[trail]

Well, look what I found on the internet about the Knickerbocker Cutlery Company...

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 5B8884F0D3

"The Knickerbocker Cutlery Company, at 527 West Twenty-fourth-street, has become financially embarrassed, and Deputy Sheriff Young has taken possession on a judgment for $5,272 in favor of H. A. Rogers."

The full article from the New York Times is at the above link - dated 1888.

Edit 04/15/11 - The article states "The company manufactured cutlery from the Wessell metal." I wondered what "Wessell metal was, and my research turned up a Holmes & Wessell Metal Company of New York which evidently went through a sticky bankruptcy in the early 1880s.

"This is an action on a promissory note bearing date December, 1884, for $2500, made by the defendant the Holmes & Wessell Metal Company, ..."
http://books.google.com/books?id=7IMEAA ... al&f=false

"A notice of appearance for said Wessell Metal Company was written out by said Worcester, and the name of his firm, Saunders, Webb & Worcester, ..."
http://books.google.com/books?id=pfA7AA ... al&f=false

[paulsvintage]

Well, look what I found on the internet about the Knickerbocker Cutlery Company...

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 5B8884F0D3

"The Knickerbocker Cutlery Company, at 527 West Twenty-fourth-street, has become financially embarrassed, and Deputy Sheriff Young has taken possession on a judgment for $5,272 in favor of H. A. Rogers."

The full article from the New York Times is at the above link - dated 1888.

WOW !! THANKS. GREAT WORK thanks so much now i have complete paperwork before i put in collection

[trail]

Here are a couple of relics I picked up for 99 cents apiece plus shipping on ebay. I haven't found a thing on either of them in books or on the internet. One is a Joseph Barnard & Sons with a great stamp on the second blade of two standing deer. The second is an N. & Co. Germany.

[Jacknifeben]

LAWTON CUTLERY CHICAGO 1895. Blades very used but bone is perfect. Split back spring whittler.

[stockman]

H&B Mfc Co. Nice old knife. Pen blade beautifully swedged to allow master blade to fall in
place in the thin frame. 3 3/4" Picture should enlarge for better view.

Thanks Stockman

[robinetn]

Here's one that I can't find any info on......any help would be appreciated . Most likely prior to 1890 .

Bob

[dcgm4]

Here's one that I can't find any info on......any help would be appreciated . Most likely prior to 1890 .

Bob, that is one gorgeous knife! I love the style of the master blade!

[paulsvintage]

very nice Bob, its in great shape too !

[trail]

There is a short thread on SAMCO knives from a few years ago, plus an occasional comment, but to me this qualifies as an obscure name. In fact, the ebay seller advertised it as an AMC knife and that is what I thought it was until I looked at a blown up picture of the tang stamp. My book shows SAMCO as Sanders Manufacturing of Nashville TN, and a quick internet search revealed that they are still in business selling advertising and promotional items.

An earlier poster suggested that Camillus made knives for SAMCO, and I wouldn't be surprised. This is a good quality old knife with a distinctive tang stamp and interesting nail nick way out on the end of the blade.

[Miller Bro's]

Here is a salesman sample box.

There is one missing on top that I removed a few years ago as the Celluloid disintergrated.

Yours looks like the cell is going, keep an eye on it.

[trail]

Thanks for the tip, M.B., I'll keep it out where it is away from my other knives and I can watch it.

[Miller Bro's]

[paulsvintage]

just love those knives hate when they self destroy

[trail]

On the first page of this thread Dale showed us an A.E. Fuller electrician's knife and told us about his efforts to track down the history of this brand. I still don't know who A.E. Fuller was, but I did find another knife. Dale's has a nice wood handle and mine has a shrunken plastic one, but mine does have some advertising on it, which may help to date the knife. I think the number is a phone number, does anyone know when the phone company went away from these short numbers? That would set the most recent date that this knife could have been made. The history of the company advertised on the handle gives us an earliest date - Good Friend Electric is still in business in Toms River. Here is some information from their website:

"Good Friend Electric is one of the most progressive electrical and lighting distributors in the industry.

"Since 1937, our goal is to provide our customers with quality products and value added services that exceed their expectations.

"History
"Good Friend Electric was founded in 1937 by Manny and Lillian Goodfriend and was located on Main Street in downtown Toms River, New Jersey. In 1949 Irving Rosen purchased the business from Manny and Lillian. In 1951 Irv and Manny became partners, and then in 1957 Irv became the sole owner again. Zev Rosen joined his father in 1957 at Goodfriend’s Electric after graduating from Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute and working for General Electric. Later that year, Goodfriend’s Electric was incorporated and became Good Friend Electric.

"In 1987, Good Friend Electric celebrated its 50th year in business and a 3rd generation, David Rosen joined the company. This year also marked the opening of its first branch location in Lacey, New Jersey. Good Friend has now grown to five locations adding: Brick in 1989, Manahawkin in 1995 and Lakewood in 1998.

"Good Friend Electric has been a family owned business through three generations. First Irv Rosen, then Zev Rosen and today is run by Good Friend Electric President, David Rosen."

http://www.goodfriendelectric.com/aboutus.html

I sent pictures to Good Friend Electric and asked them if they remembered A.E. Fuller, so maybe we are getting closer to cracking this mystery.

[Owd Wullie]

Phone numbers changed at different times in different areas but I use 1964 as guesstimate.

And that does appear to me to be a phone number. Neat old knife and interesting history.

[orvet]

VERY INTERESTING!

I spoke with mossdancer (he retired from the phone company). He said the 5 digit numbers were used until the mid 1950s, (as he could recall), but it depended on the population of that exchange. With 5 digits there are about 10000 possible numbers. If the demand for phones exceeded 10000 lines, then they would have to make the jump to the 7 digit numbers.

I remember 7 digit phone numbers in the mid-1950s, even before dial phones.
I would lift the receiver and wait for the operator to answer then ask for “Whitney 2-3529, which was my grandmother’s phone number (WH2-3529). The WH was later changed to 94, the numbers corresponding with the letters on the dial. Whitney, was the name of the phone exchange.

So from looking at the dates of the company and the name change, the knife was made 1937 & 1957, the date they changed the name from “Goodfriend Electric” to “Good Friend Electric.” Most TL-29s I have seen from the WW II era had wooden handles. I think it is a safe assumption to say it was probably made after the war as most steel. Brass, etc., went to the military for the war. Not many knives were made during the war.
It is likely that most TL-29s made post war were wood handles also. There was another war in Korea, 1950-1953. I would think this knife was most likely made in between about 1953 and 1957.

Those dates are not carved in stone, but I think those are the most likely dates for when that knife was made.

One of the great things about collecting knives is that you never know information from an unrelated field like telephones will help you date a knife, or in this case to confirm what you already suspect.

[RobesonsRme.com]

My dad was an electrician and had been an Electrician's Mate in the Navy during WWII. He had many different knives over the years. I've never seen this brand before.

Here's a link to a recently completed Ebay auction for a wood handled A. E. Fuller knife.
Look at the pic of the tang stamp. That's a cold stamped tang. That suggests to me that Fuller was not a manufacturer, but some firm that purchased finished and unmarked knives, then stamped them with their die.

Is it possible that Fuller was some kind of electrical supply business and not a cutlery?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... swNKk%253D

Charlie Noyes

[orvet]

Just for the sake of having all this info together instead of 15 pages apart,
here is a copy of my original post of the A. E. Fuller knife.

OK here is one for this thread.

I can find no mention of a knife by this company anywhere, in any book.
I looked for info on this for a couple weeks or more.
I emailed Mike Silvey, author and noted military knife expert, and a nice guy.
Mike had no info on them.
Parenthetically; Mike has a great book out that I highly recommend: "Pocket Knives of the United States Military".
It is one of my favorite knife books and has lots of great color pictures from very early Navy knives to modern knives.
My go to source of info on TL-29 knives.
Available from Knife World: http://www.knifeworld.com/pocknivofuns.html

I did a search on yellowpages.com for the company.
I found two listings, one in Texas & one in New York.

I was not able to get a hold of the Texas company but I managed to contact the company in New York,
Here are my notes from that call:

7/19/10-
Called phone number for A E Fuller Co. (found in Yellowpages.com).
The phone was answered by a lady who said A E Fuller Co. was her husband’s company but the company no longer exists.
I explained I was a knife historian, researching a knife with the AE Fuller name on it. She said they must have had the knife made for them.
She said they were manufactures representatives.

So after a week + of research I have a definite ‘maybe’ as to the origin of my mystery knife.
I must admit; it is more information than I have been able to get on some knives of unknown lineage.

Here are a couple scans not in the original post.
The tang stamp pic is not too clear.
The etch on the screwdriver blade is also more visible in person.

The lady I spoke with said the business had been a Manufacturer’s Representative business, probably an independent company who represent a number of different manufacturers. A. E. Fuller Co. was listed in Yellowpages.com as a “Wholesale Industrial Supply Company,” in business since 1935. The lady I spoke with was polite, but really did not seem to want to talk much. I got the feeling that perhaps her husband had passed away recently enough that is was painful for her to talk about him.

I have known several independent manufacturers reps some who even represented knife companies. They represented many diverse companies, not necessarily in related industries. Though the lady I spoke with did not specify the nature if the companies A. E. Fuller represented, it is quite that one or more of them may have been related to the electrical industry. That would certainly fit within the yellowpages.com category of “Wholesale Industrial Supply Company.”

It is really interesting who several of us have little pieces to the puzzle. Maybe we will eventually have a enough info to be able to at least make a well educated guess as to the origins of these knives.

Dale

[trail]

I got an email from the people at Goodfriend and the retired president of the company thought the knife might be a Klein brand. "The manufacture’s name A.E. Fuller was probably a sub-contractor of Klein Tools who we believe was our source for this promotional knife."

[robinetn]

It was extremely difficult to decipher the stamp on this barlow , but I am pretty sure that it is The Cussins & Fearn Co. ??? . Any other suggestions ?

Bob R.

[orvet]

I got an email from the people at Goodfriend and the retired president of the company thought the knife might be a Klein brand. "The manufacture’s name A.E. Fuller was probably a sub-contractor of Klein Tools who we believe was our source for this promotional knife."

I doubt A.E. Fuller was a sub-contractor of Klein, at least not if the lady I spoke to was right. Manufacturers reps, usually do not subcontract to make the products they represent.

However, I think there is a good likelihood of an association between A.E. Fuller & Klein, especially if Fuller was associated in representing some of Klein’s tools lines.

I don't think Klein has ever made their own knives. I know Camillus made Klein’s electrician knives for years. I have some S-cards for the production of M Klein electrician knives at the Camillus factory. I think they are late 1940s, 1950 and I think some from the 1960 also.

It is possible Camillus made the knives for Fuller, through Klein. The bottom line is the Camillus probably made more electricians’ knives (TL-29 type) than any other factory. If you pick up a TL-29 made in the USA between 1940 and 2007, the chances are good that Camillus made it.

[tjmurphy]

Hey Rob, did you try a pencil rub on the stamp? Might get something a little more clear.

[trail]

I agree completely. I would guess that A.E. Fuller was either a Klein brand or it was a supplier that Klein used. Either way, it's probably made by Camillus.

I don't know enough about Klein to say for sure, but I know they sold tools under their own name (made by various manufacturers) and maybe they also sold tools under other names. From the Goodfriend email, I am thinking that Klein offered custom printed knives through their catalog, which Klein sourced through A.E. Fuller. In turn, A.E. Fuller bought the knives through the best source (Camillus) and either printed the advertising on the knife or farmed it out to a local print shop. To the end purchaser, Goodfriend in this case, it would look like A.E. Fuller was the supplier (subcontractor) to Klein.

I am thinking you were on the right track from the beginning, Dale, and that A.E. Fuller of New York arranged for the production of these knives and then had the custom printing done and sold them through Klein (and maybe other) catalogs.