Old Hawkbills

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:23 am

round tip as opposed to a sharp point? cool knive dale.

tank · Post by **tank** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:24 am

Beautiful hawks Dale

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:14 pm

jonet143 wrote:round tip as opposed to a sharp point? cool knive dale.

Charlie has a theory as to the purposes of the rounded as opposed to the pointed tips.

IIRC, the pointed blades were designed more for pruning & grafting and the rounded tips were more for industrial work, like the hawkbill electrician knives.

Charlie please feel free to jump in here & explain.

This Schrade 136 is the only one I have ever seen that had a blade etch that survived. I am not sure how a guy would use the blade for skinning.
Does anyone here know about using a hawkbill for a skinner?

The only possible way I could envision using it for skinning or scraping would be if a person was tanning some hides & laid them across something like a log to scrape some of the flesh off the hides before tanning. I only say this because I saw the process on the TV show Dirtiest Jobs with Mike Rowe. They didn't use a hawkbill, but a curved blade to scrape the hide laid across what appeared to be a log on legs like a sawhorse.
Does this make sense to any of you guys who are do-it-yourself tanners or taxidermists?

Dale

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:40 pm

I have it on good authority

, that the skinning and scraping etch was thought up by an ad exec who never set foot off Madison avenue!!

Obviously a half-formed idea that somehow got through the system; unless he was thinking of skinning and scraping electrical wire, in which case the ad person was more isolated than I could imagine. Those are not the usual terms for the activity. Maybe "stripping" couldn't get by the censors! Haw Haw!
That said, I think the reshaped tip for electrical work (I've "skinned and scraped" a lot of wire in the renovating business) gives the tip more beef, to prevent snapping it when splitting the loomex(tm) to get to the inner cables, or splitting the wire casing, which would run the tip into soft metal conductors if it were real pointy, and would cause it to bind.
I can see why the shape is different for electrical work, as opposed to pruning, but I can only joke about the etch!
Beautiful (and entertaining) knife, Dale!!

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:39 pm

Thanks Charlie for the great story.

Having grown up on a ranch and butchered our own beef, hogs & venison, I have never encountered a situation skinning that I would need a hawkbill knife (but I was trying to keep my mind open to possibilities). Normally you want exactly the opposite, a knife with a lot of belly (kind of like me)

when skinning. I remember my dad being really excited the first time we butchered after he had gotten a Green River skinner knife. He was quite impressed with the shape & the edge retention of the carbon steel.

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:01 pm

nice one Dale. How about showing us that LF&C when you get it. That was a beauty. skinning and scraping reffered to skinning out eletrical wire i'm sure. more commonly reffered to as stripping, but maybe that was the norm back then?

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:49 pm

OK Kaleb,
Here is the LF&C, #2132.
The "Universal" blade etch is so faint that I couldn't get it to show up, but it is there.
I did wipe the wood handles with Formby's Build-Up Remover & then waxed the handles with Carnauba wax, oiled the joint & went over the whole knife with Ren wax.

Dale

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:07 pm

upnorth wrote:I think we have some serious DNA matching going on here Dale, and Kaleb. Thursday's mail brought me this Kingston Hawk; look familiar??

I finally got a Kingston Charlie.
There is no doubt in my mind that these three came off the same machines, made by the same hands.

What do you think?

Dale

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:44 am

Nice little family there Dale! So you get to compare them first hand! They definitely look the part to me!!
I wonder if there are any more cousins?? I bet we find another one or two

! With different markings; KeenKutter, Stay-Sharp or, or . . . . .the hunt is ON!

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:35 am

"I say Watson, the hunt is afoot."

(He says trying to sound like Sherlock...........while the hounds of the Baskerville bay in the background).

Actually we don't have any Baskerville puppies, so we will have to settle for El Lobo baying at the moon!

Dale

Maybe we should write a story.......Hounds of Ellenville.

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:08 pm

Anything to help a friend.....

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:19 pm

Thanks Bill.

I knew I could count on you!

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:31 am

Well, the hounds (El Lobo) have sounded, the prey has been spotted.
Indeed the mailman delivered it today.

The newest addition to my Hawkbill collection, a genuine Walden Knife Co hawkbill.
For those of you who do not know, Walden Knife Co of Walden New York was in business from 1874 to 1923. In 1911 E.C. Simmons Hardware Co purchased controlling interest in Walden Knife Co. In 1922 they merged with Winchester Arms Co to form Winchester-Simmons Co. They closed the plant in 1923 & mover the equipment to New Haven CT. The buildings were later purchased by Schrade Cut Co. - source: Goins' Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings.

The knife is just as I received it in this afternoon's mail, except I did clean & wax the wood handles. Formby's Build Up Remover to clean & Howard's Feed & Wax to add some oil to the wood.

Not too bad for a knife that is at least 84 years old.
I hope I look that good, my joints work as well (they don't now

), I have as much snap & am as sharp, when I am 84 years old!

Dale

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:22 am

Congratulations Dale. That's a very nice old knife

s-k

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:20 am

I added a new brand to my growing collection of Hawkbills. A Robeson.

There haven't been very many Hawkbills on fleabay that I don't have (that are made in the USA), but this is one I didn't have.

Dale

sunburst · Post by **sunburst** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:48 am

A very fine pickup Dale indeed..

You better watchout for SK though he might sneak in your house to get that one, very nice...I would like to see your entire collection one day to appreciate the vintage hawking beauty's I'll never get the chance to see..

Sunburst

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:29 pm

Nice one Dale! You hardly ever see a Robeson!
I'm with sunburst; it would be nice to see your whole collection!

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:59 pm

upnorth wrote:Nice one Dale! You hardly ever see a Robeson!
I'm with sunburst; it would be nice to see your whole collection!

Thanks.
I think I have posted most all of my Hawkbill collection here already. I only have about 30 Hawkbills.

Here is one I got last week, just before we left for a family reunion.
I didn't know that Western made hawkbills. Learn something new all the time in this hobby.

I am not sure what the handle material is. I think it is Bakelite. Bakelite is something you hear a lot of on ebay, but they are usually some type of plastic & not Bakelite. This handle looks different than any plastic handles I have, (definitely not Delrin). It reminds me of an old Bakelite radio we had as a kid.

Does anyone know how to tell if something is Bakelite?
Oops........I found the answer http://antiques.about.com/od/bakelitean ... 041506.htm

The handle on this Western passed #3, the rub test. When rubbed the handle smells like the old radio did when it got warm from the tubes inside of it.

OK, next question, does anyone know when Bakelite was used by the Cutlery Industry in general & Western specifically?

Thanks,
Dale

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:56 am

Cool Western, Dale! It's nice to see one that's been sharpened without losing the point!! Get the point??

Oh, you GOT the point!!

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:19 pm

nice western dale, I have one like it, only mine has brown delrin.
Here is a pretty good case USA 65-69 era hawk with jigged wood I picked up this morning in a trade. these pics make the blade look narrower than it actually is. Optical illusions again

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:50 pm

I got another Dunlap the other day.
It was badly covered with paint, tar & whatever else. I had to clean it up a bit.

It has, what I think, is the older style tang stamp.
If anyone knows how to date the tang stamps on Dunlop, please let me know.

Dale

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:46 pm

I have added a couple more, a stag handled George Wostenholm I*XL that has seen better days. It also looks to have seen many days.

I also picked up a nice Remington which appears to have Cocobolo handles.

Dale

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:43 pm

Nice additions to the Hawkies, Dale! That Rem is quite Full; Kewl!!
The I*XL is interesting. I've seen that even texture on a few knives before, and one was pressed horn, for sure. Is it stag under a glass??

A&E · Post by **A&E** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:18 am

Here's an old Tested ...

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:33 am

Lots of character in that old bone handle, Eric! Nice one! Didn't I try to buy that from you once??

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