Cookyboy1 wrote:How do I find out if it's ivory or horn?
It is a little hard to tell by photo's. But the knife in question appears to be too "yellow" to me for ivory. I have seen a lot of pistol grips on old colts that have had some yellowing but not as yellow as your knife scales. But I'm just guessing, without the knife in hand, it's pretty hard to tell. Nice knife either way terry
I have taken a photo of a piece of ivory and a piece of bull horn for comparison, as you can see the horn has a lot more grain than the elephant ivory. Hope that helps you out. terry
Cooky, i might have been wrong in my proclamation that it is nicely aged ivory. One experienced collector contacted me to say he thinks it is horn.
I have a collection of ivory Quill & ivory Corn knives. I am away from these knives for a couple of weeks but when back i will take a look to see if any resemble your Quill knife.
Most pieces of ivory are fairly easy to correctly identify, but some pieces are a challenge to be certain. I think how a piece of ivory looks depends in part on where in the tusk it is cut from and the direction of the cut through the tusk.
Would be great to hear from someone with experience cutting up ivory tusks for a description of various cuts and what to look for.
kj
"Tickle the Ivories" is an older expression for playing a piano as the keys used to be made of ivory. Here is a very nice Krusius 3 5/8" Swell Center Whittler marked "Governor" and "Krusius Bros/MadeIn Germany".
I have read about Krusius knives being assembled from left over parts after the Krusius factory closed forever in the mid 1980's (?) This could be one of those knives although if so i don't mind as it is very smartly put together.
The piano key ivory is mounted onto a black layer. Is this black layer ebony ?
kj
I'm not normally a big whittler pattern fan, but...that's nice. REAL nice. Venturing a guess that, yeah, they'd probably use ebony for liner material on those
Here is a container with most of my vintage ivory pocket knives. I have another container of corn knives and some of those are ivory.
Not sure how many knives but total weight is just under 6 pounds.
I am showing this to say i have not forgotten about this thread and when time permits i will show these knives individually.
kj
kootenay joe wrote:Here is a container with most of my vintage ivory pocket knives. I have another container of corn knives and some of those are ivory.
Not sure how many knives but total weight is just under 6 pounds.
I am showing this to say i have not forgotten about this thread and when time permits i will show these knives individually.
kj
There's no time the present!
I'm very curious about the pointy dagger in the pile.
Ken this 7 1/2" dagger is the one knife in that pile that likely is not ivory. It was in that pile because i do not have a separate storage category for "Ladies Dagger" aka "Letter Opener" ?
This one has a stout enough blade(zero flex) and is well ground to a point such that it would easily penetrate a body. The blade is thicker than a letter opener blade.
The handle is similar to others i have on vintage Sheffield folding knives: looks like elephant ivory but is not and it also is not "French ivory" which shows perfectly parallel lines.
If anyone knows what this dagger handle is, please post here !
kj
I do not know what the handle material can be. But I do know you have one beautiful knife. It appears hand engraved due to its inconsistency of the dot engravings. Which to me, makes it more unique and beautiful.
With no markings it makes me wonder if it was originally in a "set" of some sort?
I love knife mysteries, especially when they are solved.
It's always important to know what you don't know.
Dan
I think the handle, collar and guard are from a set of table cutlery such as pickle forks or tea knives. (tea as in 1500-1600 hrs snack) The knife maker then mounted his blade into this handle 'set up'.
kj
This is my only elephant ivory (at least I'm pretty sure it's elephant ivory).
It's a shame that the scales are broken off at the bale on both sides.
It was a flea market find a couple of year ago.
Btw, it's also the biggest knife I have; look at the comparison to a standard size copperhead in the first pic!
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Keith
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keithw wrote:This is my only elephant ivory (at least I'm pretty sure it's elephant ivory).
It's a shame that the scales are broken off at the bale on both sides.
It was a flea market find a couple of year ago.
Btw, it's also the biggest knife I have; look at the comparison to a standard size copperhead in the first pic!
Keith, that is a wonderful old sportsman knife! Great flea market find. Is it about 6" closed?
"A tool is but an extension of a man's hand." -Henry Ward Beecher
I bought a used old Cattaraugus that had green celluloid handles that were gassing out and on one side half the handle was missing. I usually never have knives worked on but this little beauty was etched so I sent it to my repair guy with some old Ivory and I am waiting to get it back. I did not want to lose a great knife because of the handles. Before and after pics. Also pics of the group that I bought that had the ivory in it.
kootenay joe wrote:Ken this 7 1/2" dagger is the one knife in that pile that likely is not ivory. It was in that pile because i do not have a separate storage category for "Ladies Dagger" aka "Letter Opener" ?
This one has a stout enough blade(zero flex) and is well ground to a point such that it would easily penetrate a body. The blade is thicker than a letter opener blade.
The handle is similar to others i have on vintage Sheffield folding knives: looks like elephant ivory but is not and it also is not "French ivory" which shows perfectly parallel lines.
If anyone knows what this dagger handle is, please post here !
kj
Looks like ivory to me KJ. I have some old ivory handled table cutlery that cracked just like that from shrinkage. I also have an unmarked dagger that has done the same thing. The discoloration is likely from the metal beneath it.
k7k, the pic showing 3 pieces of ivory: 1 you had cut up for rehandling the whittler & the other 2 pieces are old knife handles ? or ??
And re my dagger with maybe ivory handles: i bought it because of how the handle is cracked. The ebay pics were too poor to assess nature of handle material but the crack was visible and is like cracks in ivory table cutlery i have. The price remained low so i went for it because the handle crack suggests ivory.
Now that i have it i am unsure. It shows almost no grain.
Do you know if certain areas of the tusk if cut a certain way will yield a piece of ivory with no grain showing ?
I have other knives with what likely is ivory handles but they show no grain.
I wonder if the center of a tusk, cut longitudinally, gives a piece lacking grain ?
kj
From my limited experience cutting and working ivory since the '90s I have seen lots of ivory with no visible grain. I've seen Mastodon tusk, Mammoth, and Elephant tusk with no visible grain. Also Sperm Whale teeth are ivory and the grain is not at all visible like Pachyderms often are. Elephant, Mammoth, and Mastodon tusk has an outer layer of modified dentin which is about 1/4 to 3/8 inch thick on bigger tusks which shows no grain. The bigger the tusk, the thicker the outer layer. You can think of it like a tree with a bark layer which shows no tree rings, while the interior has easily distinguishable and countable rings. Walrus tusk also has an outer layer and it is usually thicker and more desirable. The outer layer on Walrus tusk has a slightly translucent and evenly consistent hue. The interior looks like tapioca and has no tree ring type grain. The outer layer on a Walrus tusk has no visible grain lines exactly like your handles. It was used much more widely before the 1970s when Walrus numbers were declining. This outer layer can be very thick on a Walrus tusk and is even thicker down near the tip and is plenty thick to make handles. As stated, it's slightly more translucent and pearly colored if you will, not as opaque white as Pachyderms. If you see the two next to each other it's obvious, but by themselves harder to tell. Here's some Elephant and no visible grain at all. Even under magnification. I cut the ivory slabs for these scales, they were outer or exterior layer.
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"It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid." -No Name, High Plains Drifter
Ivoryman thank you for this information and for posting your own experience with ivory.
Is there a way to distinguish reconstituted ivory from a piece of dull flat white no grain outer ivory just by looking at them ?
kj
You're welcome, glad it was helpful.
What is reconstituted ivory? Is that man made ivory? Never heard of it. Know nothing about it.
One trick to identifying ivory is smell. It smells like nothing else. If you can't smell it as is, you can just barely rub a tiny spot of it with some super fine sand paper and smell the dust. Unmistakable odor. You'll know it when you smell it. Like Elephant/Mammoth/Mastadon/Walrus B.O.
"It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid." -No Name, High Plains Drifter
The reconstituted ivory uses the saw dust from cutting up ivory, and adds epoxy to it.
I read about this years ago when there were shops specializing in cutting ivory so they had plenty of ivory saw dust to use. I do not know if any reconstituted ivory is being made now.
kj
I have to agree with Ivoryman in that there are a lot of ivory pieces that show hardly any if any lines or growth rings. I have cut up about 30-40 lbs of the stuff in the last 15 years and some if it shows Schreger lines and some of it is pure white. I have several small pieces laying around and if anyone wants a sample, send me a email with your address and $5 to cover the shipping and I'll send you one you can sand , polish, drill , or what ever. Or just keep it around to look at. These are all small pieces not big enough for any handles, just left over from cutting fixed blade handle scales. The photo is a couple I bought and they weighed about50 lbs total and were imported in 1968 according to the fed. stamp on the ivory.
terry
