How to ID......

[Fatstrat]

An older Buck 110 w/better steel, from the newer ones? Is there a blade marking to look for?

[jonet143]

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 53&t=11207

[Fatstrat]

Thanks for the very informative and interesting reply.
I assume the various changes were done to enhance both anti corrosion and ease of MFG.
I have heard comments regarding Buck blades ranging from "the older ones were hard to sharpen, but held an edge". To "The newer blades won't hold an edge".
Was wondering if anyone had an opinion as to what vintage Buck blades are the best. Thanks

[Fatstrat]

Anyone?

[jonet143]

i've had several bucks over the years. i had no trouble with any of them. they kept their edges quite well.

[hot tempered steel]

Hi Fatstrat, first off Jonet, Hukk or one of the other moderaters can zap this to the Buck forum if they want being it's straight lining Buck. As far as an opinion, I like the older Buck knifes and the steel they were made of but in the same breath I would say the current production Buck knifes are as good as any you will find in todays market with 420 HC steel blades. The 110 and 112 lockbacks are tough made EDC knifes. My knowledge of Buck knifes is quite limited but I do like them. H.T.S.

[jonet143]

we'll try here. i'm not that experienced with bucks other than as users. maybe one of the buck collectors will give an answer.

[orvet]

Arguably the finest piece of steel in my collection is a Buck 110 that has a Buck Custom Shop BG-42 blade.
The 420HC steel used in the regular 110 blades are some of the best around apart from the high tech steels.
Any steel is only as good as it's heat treating. I believe that Paul Bos does all of Buck's heat treating. There is no one I know of who is better at that job than Paul.

Perhaps Joe Houser will see this thread and add his expertise.

Dale

[philco]

I have a Buck 110 from the late 70s or very early 80s. You could not ask for better edge retention than it has. It does take a few more strokes across the stone to put a keen edge on it, but once sharp it's good to go, and go, and go some more. A quick run through on the crock sticks now and then and it stays shaving sharp. I have field dressed and then skinned out two deer on the same day and it was still sharp enough to shave the hair off your arm after doing that with no touch up sharpening along the way. I have a couple of newer Buck knives that I have used and they seem to be of equal quality as far as taking and holding an edge. And they are both China made. One, a Buck Bantam is as good a knife as I know of out there anywhere for under twenty dollars.
I don't think you are going to go wrong if it says Buck on the blade regardless of when it was produced.

Phil

[hot tempered steel]

Does anyone ever remember an old magazine add with pictures showing a Buck fixed blade knife being sawed through a nail mounted in a vise with a sentence saying something like Buck Knifes tough as nails, or tougher than nails or something like that? Don't know what magazine it would have been in. Could have been in Playguns or Ammo & Boys magazines....or maybe that was Guns & Ammo or Playboy magazines? I have an older brother that said there was an add like that but I honestly don't remember one. I think his memory is going in his old age. There's a bet on this one, a USA Schrade LB7 to him if there was an add and a Buck 110 to me if there wasn't. Who needs to buy some shipping postage to mail a knife?

[Gunsmoke47]

I remember that! Except it was a Ginsue knife not a Buck, and then it sliced a tomato right after that.

[Hukk]

I seem to remember seeing a Buck knife being used to cut through a bolt using a hammer on the spine!

[philco]

Hate to break it to you HTS but I think your brother's memory is better than you are giving him credit for. I too think I recall that ad from days of old.

Sorry.

[hot tempered steel]

Well cutting a bolt or sawing a nail sounds close enough. With all of you guys remembering it, looks like I'll be going to the Post Office in the morning. I think that Viagra is going to the wrong end of my body because my thick skull is getting harder and harder. Thank you guys very much. H.T.S.

[Hukk]

I remember that! Except it was a Ginsue knife not a Buck, and then it sliced a tomato right after that.

Yep, I remember that one on tv.

The cutting of a bolt (using a hammer) I think was an Outdoor Life magazine ad (just read that Buck link - a good read). I read those magazines cover to cover - I could have a faulty memory though - wouldn't be the first time!

[Joe Houser]

The 110 was introduced in 1964 with 440C. Stampings found on a 440c 110 include:
BUCK, BUCK* , BUCK, U.S.A. , BUCK, 110, U.S.A. , BUCK, *110*, U.S.A. and BUCK, *110**, U.S.A.
We used that steel until 1981 when it was changed to 425mod. 110'S with 425mod will be stamped:
BUCK, **110**, U.S.A. Also stamped BUCK, 110<, U.S.A. The < is the first date code symbol we used and this started in 1986. A new symbol was placed after the 110 on the blade each year and you'll need to refer to the date code symbol chart for the next part.
In 1992 we changed the steel again to 420hc. These knives will have the BUCK, 110, U.S.A. stamping with a date code from 1992 or later.

Confused yet? Ok, I'll keep going....Those early 440c knives had quite a thick edge, hence the "they are so hard to resharpen" comments often made. There were minor changes made in the edge geometry over the years but nothing significant until the year 2000. We introduced our Edge 2000 edge. (Is that redundant?) It made an edge that was easier to resharpen. We also enlisted the help of Laser Goniometers to accurately measure the angles on knives. Our shop shoots for 26-32 included angle for the majority of the knives in the line.
The knife through the bolt or nail actually can be found on Buck catalogs from the 1940's through to sometime in the 1980's. This logo is also found on most 300 series Buck pocket knives on the handle shield.

[hot tempered steel]

Thank you Mr. Houser for the confirmation of the nail or bolt thing. That one cost me a USA Schrade LB7 & sheath, and I just knew I was going to get a Buck 110 & sheath. I had already cleared out a place in my collection for it.
There is one or two questions I would like to ask about Buck knifes. Did Buck ever use carbon steel, like 1095 for blade steel? If not, how come? Material cost, or customer returns because of darken blades, ect.? Do you think Buck will ever offer carbon steel in any of it's knifes in the future? H.T.S.

[Joe Houser]

In the early years Buck used old files and power hacksaw blades. This would be on knives from before 1961. If you see an old Buck with lucite, lignum vitae, elk, ebony or masonite, it was made from one of those 2 steels. (This assumes the knife is stamped BUCK only. There may be a dot or two by the BUCK but no U.S.A. yet.)
In 1961 they incorporated and decided to move away from handmade knives and into production. The first production blades were made from forgings and I am sure the steel type, 440c, was partly decided on by the forging company based on their expertise. This is just a guess on my part.
Will we ever go to a higher carbon content steel, one that may discolor? Probably not anytime soon as Chuck just hates to see brown blades. Besides, there are so many other great steels out there that wont discolor. Again, this is just my best guess on the subject.

[Hukk]

I sure like the Buck 110's with CPM S30V and CPM 154, the latter seems easier to sharpen. I like BG-42 also, but I would like to have a Buck 110 in a carbon steel - even a pattern welded steel. A future project I guess for me to do, rams horn looks good against brass for handles - IMO.

I'm no fan of the 420 HC Stainless Steel (.5% Carbon is High Carbon?), what I call cookie cutter steel due to the large steel rolls that can be used to stamp out 1000's of blades in a hurry. BUT, I must admit that Buck heat treats 420 HC Stainless better than anyone else. That's where it counts regardless of steel type.

[orvet]

BUT, I must admit that Buck heat treats 420 HC Stainless better than anyone else. That's where it counts regardless of steel type.

The blade is only as good as the heat treating.
I am a big fan of Paul Bos and the heat treating he does. Nobody does it better.
I believe he does all the US Bucks.

Dale

[orvet]

BTW, thanks for the history Joe!

I believe if Buck were to introduce a line of US Made, carbon steel knives comparable to the 300 series, they would dominate the carbon steel slipjoint market in the matter of 1 – 2 year.

I base my opinion on:
· My experience with the high quality of the many Buck knives I own
· My 10+ years of retail cutlery experience
· The preference of many of my customers for carbon steel
· The preference of many of my fellow forum members in this & other forums for carbon steel
· The lack of choices for carbon steel knives since Schrade & Camillus went out of business

If the Buck carbon steel knives were close in price to the current Buck stainless steel knives they would undersell Case, who is the only large US maker who makes even a few carbon steel knives.

I think the US market & world market is ready for some carbon steel Bucks!

We can only hope!
Dale

[Joe Houser]

I've come to a conclusion, based on my contact with customers for so many years. That conclusion is that I am sure glad we use many types of steels because one type wont make everybody happy.
So many times I heard customers complain that they did not like their older 110 because it was too hard to sharpen. Now some of that was due to the edge geometry we used back then but most of it, IMHO, was due to the fact that the steel was harder. We used 440c. Steel snobs like me would gladly take 440c over 420hc right?
But some knife users want ease of sharpening more than increased edge retention. I hear this all the time.
And some guys, like me, just love the cool Bos flame logo that comes on all our knives that are made with one of the primium steels.
I may not be explaining it very well but I guess it boils down to the fact that there isnt a one size fits all when it comes to steel. Does that make sense?

[hot tempered steel]

I understand what your saying Mr. Houser but if Buck offered a knife or series of knifes in carbon steel like Orvet spoke of wouldn't Buck knifes be on both sides of the issue and would be selling knifes to both? Not to mention the Non Buck customers that don't like SS and wouldn't buy a Buck knife that has SS blades stepping over to the line to buy a carbon steel bladed Buck made knife. I've talked with some real hard core old school guys that thinks there is no other steel in the world worthy enough to make a knife blade besides carbon steel. They don't even use the words stainless steel, they refer to it as THAT CHINA TIN with beer cans melted into it to keep it from rusting. I agree with Orvet, if Buck offered a carbon steel knife or series of knifes, I think they would sale and more than likely knock a big dent in Case's regular production knife customers at this time. That's just my opinion as a knife buyer/user though. I'm no salesman nor do I make knifes for a living and have to know for sure what would sale or not sale to keep a knife factory running.
H.T.S.

[334dave]

not to correct Joe as he most likely did not recall it right away but
Buck DID sell a 110 with carbon steel blade!
they offered Damascus Steel made of two differing carbon steels
i do not know the mix numbers
they got most from Parker/Frost i believe
they also had some premium high dollar
MEIERSTEEL.com damascus stock but i dont know what it went to..
now they some times have a stainless tear drop damascus..

[orvet]

Not to beat a dead horse, nor to tell Joe & Chuck how to run their company, but I do believe that the market is also ready for a line of Buck knives (slipjoints) with bone handles.

It is not necessary to go overboard like Case does, (IMHO) with 25-30 different handles in each pattern, but a few bone handled Buck slip joints every year or so would be snatched up by collectors before they had a chance to set too long on any shelf.

It will be interesting to see how well the Companion, Lancer, Stockman & Cadet patterns do in the Charcoal Dymondwood® series that Smoky currently has running. (see pic below)
I bought the Stockman in this series and I am very impressed. Though the color would not have been my first choice, but the slanted bolsters and the new shield sets the knife off nicely. It works! The pouch type sheath with the clip on the back makes an nice looking & functional accessory.
I do not know if this item is exclusive to Smoky or not, but I imagine it would do very well in retail outlets other than Smoky.

I would love to see Buck step into this market. The choices we collectors & users have for quality American made slipjoints is shrinking. Buck makes a quality product at a very reasonable price. I believe they would do well.

Dale