Help Pricing Vintage USA Folders

[kootenay joe]

I am not sure if this is the correct forum for asking about monetary value ?
A fellow wants to buy a number of my knives and for the vintage USA folders i do not know what they are worth. I try to price a little below 'average market value' so buyer gets a good knife and a good deal.
I will start with: Robeson 62654, ~ 3 5/8" Stabber Jack, never used, handles, jigged black composition ?
L.F. & C/N.B. CONN/U.S.A. ~ 3 1/2" Equal End Harness Jack, "Universal" etch. black composition handles ? never used.

If this type of question is not suitable here, please let me know.
kj

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Roland, Any idea how old this knife is?

[philco]

Roland there's no problem at all with you using this forum to ask about the value of a knife.

[kootenay joe]

Phil, thank you for the reassurance. In addition to value i will appreciate any comments about any knife i post. Learning is as enjoyable as buying & selling.
Age, i believe is 'vintage', likely first half of last century. Maybe a Robeson or L.F.&C. collector can be more specific ? Hope so.
kj

[kootenay joe]

Hmmm, so far no one willing to 'have a go'. Maybe these 2 are not often seen and so hard to price and it is not only me who does not know a reasonable price.
I think the 'Stabber Jack' is an awesome knife and it is pre WW II and might be as old as WW I era. Harness jacks are usually quite popular. Is there a HJ collector reading this ?
kj

[gsmith7158]

Roland just being an innocent bystander here, and not knowing much about either brand even I can see that they are both pretty special knives. Of course the only deficiency would be a lack of natural handle materials but I would think there would be a premium for the patterns. Wish I could be more help.

[knifeaholic]

Just my opinion...

Both are nice knives, both with unusual blade configurations. Both pre-WWII era.

As Greg indicated the imitation bone reduces the collector demand.

I have an identical Robeson except in classic Robeson worm groove brown bone. I value mine at maybe 250. Your knife in composition, my value judgment would be 125.

The LF&C is desirable since harness jacks have become a collecting category within both antique and modern knives. My value judgment would be 150 to 175 since it is a harness jack. LF&C knives with the imitation bone in general are hard to sell for decent prices. A shame since they are nice well made knives.

[LongBlade]

KJ - I can speak abit to the LF&C but maybe bestgear (Tom) will come along who no doubt collects them and even has some old catalogs. With the Universal etch and based on references like Levines the date is from early 1900s to approximately mid 1900s (maybe 1940 but not sure) though I have seen LF&C knives (without Universal etch that could be late 1800s - I do believe I remember that the Universal etch started in 1903 unless the info I read was incorrect and not sure where I had read it). The great majority of LF&C pocket knives used black composition handles though you find them, though less often, with celluloid, wood and MOP. Funny that LF&C kitchen knives and their earlier fixed blades used some beautiful stag. Anyway for whatever reason not many seem to gravitate to LF&C knives perhaps because of the black composition handles - often you see some shrinkage on those handles and do believe there is some on your LF&C HJ). Other than that I think LF&C made a fine pocket knife in many patterns. It is really hard to estimate a price (I think you would see most LF&C pocket knives that end on eBay depending on pattern from $25-75, maybe abit higher, though I would guess the HJ would be more desirable as a pattern and perhaps more value. I like that HJ - nice knife ... Perhaps others can comment better on price and those who either buy them or sell them... the few LF&C knives I have were either wood or MOP so not sure how relevant price would be though I watch them just out of curiosity on eBay. Better to have someone like Charlie or others comment on Robeson knives in general and prices but my "guess" is slightly higher in market value...

[LongBlade]

Note in edt - I didn't see Steve's reply last night above mine when I posted as it was late and I was taking my time writing a reply when Steve hit the submit button - but for some reason didn't see it in the end after I posted mine.. nonetheless KJ - I believe there is agreement on the LF&C knives between our posts (and Greg alluded to the lack of desirability as well because of black compo handles) - I think Steve's prices on the LF&C and Robesons are better estimates but my guess on the LF&C HJ would be slightly less +/- $100 but certainly can reach $125 pending how much someone is willing to pay (as I said in my post the HJ would perhaps be slightly higher in value and is just a desirable pattern as Steve confirmed even before I posted )... I will say LF&C knives in anything but celluloid or black compo can get more money but I just don't see alot of folks competing for them...

[bestgear]

Hi Roland - I can weigh-in on the Landers, Frary and Clark that you used as a representative example of a vintage USA folder. I, like many here, use sold items on eBay as one bellwether of current pricing, it as after-all the self-proclaimed largest online marketplace for vintage items on Earth. I looked at recently sold LF&C folding knives with the black celluloid (perfected stag) covers and came up with the following 7 knives:

$43.35 Balloon Pen - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lander ... &LH_Sold=1

$37.00 2-Blade Jack - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-LF-C-L ... &LH_Sold=1

$33.32 Swell End Jack - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lander ... &LH_Sold=1

$21.51 2-Blade Jack - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lander ... &LH_Sold=1

$21.50 4-Blade Official Scout - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antiqu ... &LH_Sold=1

$20.08 Barehead Jack - https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-LF-C-L ... &LH_Sold=1

$17.50 2-Blade Jack - https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-LF-C-U ... &LH_Sold=1

This would make the average sales price of these 7 knives $27.75. The earliest your knife could be is 1912 which is when LF&C purchased Humason & Beckley and started branding their knives with the Universal logo. Your knife is in superb condition and probably would retail for more than the average of the 7 knives above, how much more and how quickly it would sell is anyone's guess.

As Steve pointed out, LF&C knives with the imitation bone in general are hard to sell for decent prices even with this being a Harness Jack. And as Lee pointed out, LF&C knives in anything but celluloid or black compo can get more money.

As another bellwether, I currently have 131 LF&C knives for sale in my AAPK store for an average asking price of $80.34. They have been for sale over a year even with a significant price reduction this past June. In the past 12 months I have sold 5 LF&C knives for an average of $73.00/knife.

My best guess is that your LF&C knife has a current fair market value between $40 and $60 to the right buyer in the right venue. Hope that helps!

[kootenay joe]

Gentlemen, thank you all for your posts. This is just what i was hoping for: discussion of price & the reasons. I have just learned more about LF&C than i already knew. e.g. that the black composition handles decrease the value even when knife is a harness jack; and, that the etch "Universal" goes back to perhaps as far as 1903, and so on.
What i haqve also learned is that both are worth less than i had thought. I had thought that a H.J. and a knife with a saber ground spear point blade would 'trump' the lack of bone or stag handles. But the opinion here of very experienced collectors is that the handles hold back the value even in these desirable patterns.
I have a few more knives to ask about which i will do in the next post.
kj

[kootenay joe]

Here are 2 Schrade Cut Co E.O. jacks. The one with caps is the one i would like advice on value. It has seen light use but i believe both blades are full.
thanks for the help.
kj

[kootenay joe]

And 2 more, a 4 line Camillus Electrician jack (U.S. Military ?) and a Walden Knife Co Wharncliffe whittler. The Walden has some blade loss but both the pattern & the manufacturer are both very collectible so i think this knife is still worthy of collecting.
Again, i am looking for a fair price not absolute top dollar.
Thank you.
kj

[bestgear]

Roland - It may be an optical illusion or the way that the main blade sits in the frame but your Schrade E.O.Jack without bolster tips appears to be shortened (see my black arrow) ...... which is not atypical of a beautiful knife of this era.

[gsmith7158]

Roland the Camillus electricians knife with bone handles is a pretty scarce knife and will bring substantially more than it's wood handled brethren. I haven't seen one sell lately but I would say $75-$125 on that one.

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Greg. The bone Camillus is a really nice knife, feels so solid in hand.
Tom, yes the blade in the EO without caps is short which is why I am asking only about the value of capped one with full blades.
kj

[kootenay joe]

Question regarding Walden Knife Co. Wharncliffe whittler:
Does it's worn condition which includes blade loss from repeated sharpening remove almost all value from it ?
Or because it is a Walden & a Wharncliffe whittler, both very collectible, enable it to hold reasonable value even though heavily used ?
I think i asked this in an earlier post ? No harm if i am repeating myself because replies can be applied to certain other knives.
Basically: does condition over rule everything, even rarity ?
kj

[olderdogs1]

Roland,
In my opinion condition is very important as far as vintage knives go. That being said a really rare knife can bring good money regardless of condition. I have a Case Bros Gowanda jack knife that is in poor condition but I have been approached about selling it several times. I had a WRCase &Sons 6488 1905-15 that was in fair condition at best, sold it for a good price when I found a better one.
The knives that suffer the most as far as condition are the knives that are not that rare. As an example a 5488 XX 40-64 congress in poor condition is not worth much when better examples are readily available.
Didn’t mean to bring Case knives in the mix but I have had a lot more experience with them as far as condition goes.
Let me stress that this is just my opinion and other folk’s opinions are just as important as mine.

Tom

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Tom. The Case examples are helpful in explaining that extreme rarity can over ride poor condition. This is what i was asking. So, is my Walden Whittler truly a rare knife ? It is the only one i have seen but my exposure to USA folding knives is no where near as extensive as many others here.
kj

[knifeaholic]

Question regarding Walden Knife Co. Wharncliffe whittler:
Does it's worn condition which includes blade loss from repeated sharpening remove almost all value from it ?
Or because it is a Walden & a Wharncliffe whittler, both very collectible, enable it to hold reasonable value even though heavily used ?
I think i asked this in an earlier post ? No harm if i am repeating myself because replies can be applied to certain other knives.
Basically: does condition over rule everything, even rarity ?
kj

That Walden appears to me to be in very nice condition. IMO the minor wear is not a big issue, given the rarity of Waldens and the extreme rarity of Wharncliffe whittlers.

[kootenay joe]

Thank you Steve. I know you have a lot of USA knife experience so if it is rare in your experience it is rare. The tips of all 3 blades are rounded off from sharpening and sheepsfoot has 2 nicks in blade edge. So, $100 knife ?
kj

[orvet]

Thank you Steve. I know you have a lot of USA knife experience so if it is rare in your experience it is rare. The tips of all 3 blades are rounded off from sharpening and sheepsfoot has 2 nicks in blade edge. So, $100 knife ?
kj

I think the Walden would likely bring more than $100. Steve is more experienced than I in these brands but I would personally be delighted to get the Walden for $100. It is worth that to me as an EDC.

Just my $.02 worth...