The WINTERBOTTOM Thread!!!

[gsmith7158]

Mountainad82, you have some really nice knives.

Greg, I guess if your only going to have one that would be the one yo have.

to both of you.

Thanks Keith! It does hold a prominent position in the display case.

[espn77]

Now we are talkin the same language "display case" lol

[mountainad82]

espn77, thank you! Winterbottom Queen knives are my favorites. That english jack was my grandfather’s knife and the one that got me interested in knife collecting. He was killed in a coal mining accident in 1961. That knife was in his pocket when he was found. I received it from his brother when I was a boy in the 80’s. It is pretty rough but has a lot of sentimental value to me.

[espn77]

espn77, thank you! Winterbottom Queen knives are my favorites. That english jack was my grandfather’s knife and the one that got me interested in knife collecting. He was killed in a coal mining accident in 1961. That knife was in his pocket when he was found. I received it from his brother when I was a boy in the 80’s. It is pretty rough but has a lot of sentimental value to me.

Oh wow, it amazes me how a knife can have such priceless value. It must feel good to have that knife.

[JohnR]

I'm going to put these pics of a Hatch English Jack here, Mark informed me that he is pretty sure it is an example of Winterbottom stag.

[ratlesnake75]

Hey John, Thanks for posting the Hatch in this thread. I do think its a very early "Winterbottom" Genuine Stag handle. Its Wonderful to see pictures of Scarce unique jigging patterns and as time goes on,,,we can ADD more pictures of Similar bone/stag jigging for References and then maybe one day we will have a better understanding of "Winterbottom" as we do for "Rogers" bone.
Kindest Regards,
Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, Does anyone have "Schatt & Morgan or SXM" knives that have "Winterbottom" handles????
Kind Regards,
Mark

[bigbore]

Winterbottom bone on 2 Queen Swingguard "EDC"

[peanut740]

I'm going to put these pics of a Hatch English Jack here, Mark informed me that he is pretty sure it is an example of Winterbottom stag.

John,I believe yours knife predates Winterbottom bone company by quite a few years.If memory serves they started business about WWI.I remember reading something by Levine several years ago on the subject.According to Goins,Hatch dates 1885-99.I think your knife has original hand jigged bone. Some bone that is attributed to Winterbottom is it really Winterbottom or something similar?

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Peanut, I think this is WHY this thread is so valuable to the knife World & is why I posted it to begin with,,,it very much grasp my inner thoughts about Winterbottom handles.
Here in my book by Sargent,,,c1902-1903 is Red Winterbottom handles circled in Red.
Kind Regards,
Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, Now how far back does "Winterbottom" handles go??? Well guys, Lets take a look back into our history & discuss it,,,how about it guys? My 1st post will include our knife World Article Link below. Mr. Winterbottom was certainly in Egg Harbor city, NJ between 1885-1890. Anytime after this is possible for Winterbottom bone to be made. Now I also assume & want to mention,,,This particular pattern jigging was NOT Called Winterbottom at this time,,,but we can recognize it NOW as Winterbottom,,,In my Humble Opinion.
Kind Regards,
Mark


http://www.knife-expert.com/bonehand.txt

"A thumbnail history would start somewhere about 1885 when Samuel
Winterbottom left Sheffield for Philadelphia, leaving his wife and
three children behind. Sam's first job was peddling window glass in
the streets and glazing windows. One of his fellow peddlers
[supposedly] was Henry Disston, who was selling saws from a
wheelbarrow. In later years they joined forces and made special
circular saws for cutting bone. Some time before 1890, Samuel
Winterbottom moved to Egg Harbor City, New Jersey, and sent for his
family.
"In 1890 he set up his first shop ... Winterbottom Carter. S.W. was
the craftsman, Carter the desk man (book keeping). As time passed,
Samuel's four sons entered the business: Harry, Jack, Ernest, and Fred
(born in the U.S.)

[peanut740]

Mark,you left out the next paragraph that said they stared making handles for knives and bayonets in 1917.

[wiseguy]

GREAT THREAD .... my PRESTO knife shown on the 2nd page was1940s. Here`s the guys

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Peanut, Sorry I left that paragraph out buddy,,,didnt mean too. I really do feel that Case Winterbottom handles & their pictures in our knife books should support the idea of it being made well before WW1.

I do also agree with YOU Sir that Winterbottom will be called "Winterbottom" and it wont be authentic Winterbottom(Honestly Buddy, We even agree to disagree about this HATCH Knife & whether its bone or Genuine stag, LOL,,,This is too funny huh,,smiling laughing). The term "Rogers" bone has many variations also & is why most folks are Just plain Lost about whether its "Rogers Bone" or not. Its actually impossible to Verify its Authenticy as to whom made it. However, I do feel the more pictures we have available, The easier it will be to support our ideas of whether its Bone/Stag/Winterbottom/Rogers Bone or just plain old Wormgroove brown bone by Cattaraugus or is it??? LMAO

I do feel as time goes on,,,We can find similar knives w/ Similar jigging patterns and start piecing the evidence together. This is where we start buddy,,,A good Thread about what we Love & cherish. Having a strong appetite for Studying & Then maybe we can familiarize ourselves with what it should NORMALLY look like. I know its very easy to read into things & please never ever take offense to what I post on AAPK,,,I just trying to be helpful & learn as we go along. The way I take this paragraph below is Prior to WW1,,,The handles were done by HAND & Not machinery.
Kindest Regards,
Mark

"When the U.S. entered World War I [April 1917], the factory began
making handles for knives and bayonets. Carter, being of Quaker
belief, would have nothing to do with war materials and left the
company. Up to this time, most of the work was done by hand. Orders
were so heavy the brothers designed and hand built machines that kept
125 men working six days a week.

[olderdogs1]

I have a few Winterbottom knives that I have acquired over the years. In my experience it comes in several different forms and colors but all are attractive to me. The 1st picture is 3 Tested Winterbottom knives. The other knives are mostly W R Case & Son with a couple of W R Case & Sons.
The 31 jack is actually a 6231 3/4 and the 35 has a really nice Saber blade, both unusual in my experience. In my experience the Red Winterbottom knives are all older than tested although the Brown Winterbottom shows up in the old W R Case & Sons knives as well.

Thanks for looking!

Tom

[espn77]

If I'm understand this discussion, people used to carve, jig the handles by hand? That's incredible. How long does that take.

[ratlesnake75]

Hey TOM,,,,,,OMG Now this is what I am talking about,,,Absolutely STUNNING & KILLER Knives Sir. I very much appreciate you showing the differences.

Hey Keith(espn) -- You are correct Sir. This is why the EARLY knives look so different than the later Queen Steel knives,,,each & every one of them are UNIQUE. The colors(dye),,Jigging patterns, etc. are all Different, each done by the workers in the factory,,,but they do look similar of course. Thanks Tom for sharing your LOVELY Collection with us today. I hopes to continue this thread as time goes on & we find more examples to compare.
Kindest Regards everyone,
Mark

[jlw257]

Tom, Fantastic group of WinterBottom

[RalphAlsip]

It's a pleasure to see the beautiful and rare knives that have been posted in the thread.

Here are a couple more Case patterns (65 and 45) in Winterbottom to add to the variety. I have heard the handle on the Case Tested XX 6165 SAB called green Winterbottom - I don't know if that is an accurate / accepted description or not. I also wonder if the intent was to emulate the appearance of stag.

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Jerry, Smashing Winterbottom knives buddy. You folks making me DROOL today, BIG TIME!!!!
Kind Regards,
Mark

[espn77]

Jerry, that 45 is the best I've ever seen. Thanks for showing it off.

[jlw257]

Jerry, great looking knives Tom and your photography skills are awesome

[LongBlade]

Just want to say a great thread you started Mark ... and so many nice examples of winterbottom bone - especially those recent Case knives by Jerry ....

This has been educational for me - I am not sure of all my knives if I have one winterbottom bone ... I don't think I do despite all the different jigged bone... I just wonder how many old CT and NE cutleries used it in the older knife category.... and not sure if there was any in Sheffield?? (maybe I need to check the last 4 pages again )...

Note in edit - I just saw John's beautiful Hatch with winterbottom bone so guess it does have old roots as well in early cutleries in CT... cool ... guess I need to get an example one of these days ....

[peanut740]

Here's a couple of toenails made by Phoenix Knife.One is a John Chatillon and a Wyeth's Warranted Cutlery.

[peanut740]

Also a Case Brothers like Tom posted earlier.