New York Knife on Ebay

galvanic1882 · Post by **galvanic1882** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:12 pm

OK guys what do you think about this New York Knife Eureka pattern that is on ebay. A good friend asked me and I told him I would ask the question to the forum.

200177965936 is the ebay auction number.

Thanks Mike

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:44 pm

As soon as I read "Eureka" I thought FAKE....there are a lot of identical new-looking Eureka jack patterns with old brand names out there, they all look identical and look like they were made yesterday.

So I looked at the listing and yep it is one of those..FAKE!!...at least IMO.

Looks new, has none of the character and patina that an original old NYK would have even if mint and unused. The old knives from the pre 1930's era naver had super-shiny blades, even when they came out of the factory. Even high-polished blades back then had more of a subdued finish, hard to explain you just have to compare.

I have several old NYK pocket knives with original etched blades, and the finish is not even polished, more of a fine satin (crocus?).

msteele6 · Post by **msteele6** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:49 pm

Totally agree, and would just add that the jigging on that knife bears no relationship to the jigging on any NYK that I have seen.

In addition to the fake Eureka jacks I would be leery of any Congress jacks or Coke Bottles with coffin bolsters.

stockman · Post by **stockman** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:33 pm

Mike, knifeaholic and msteele6 are right on IMO. Just below on this Counterfeit watch is a Empire that is not the real deal, what I would like to know is what are these knives, and who made them.

Stockman

galvanic1882 · Post by **galvanic1882** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:44 pm

Me too it would be nice to find that out

msteele6 · Post by **msteele6** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:45 pm

I asked the seller about a fake (or reproduction) Wilbert that was listed, as I recall, as being made up of old parts from a factory, the question "Who made them up?"

He was very up front in saying that the knives were made up of old parts and stated that they were made from parts from the old Ulster factory.

It seems that I have also heard somewhere that these knives were made up from parts from the Utica factory.

In any case, they are not difficult to spot (especially when you've been stung twice like I have).

By the way, another favorite pattern for these fakes is the three backspring cattle knife.

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:53 pm

In the late 1980's, a couple of well known knife dealers purchased the Utica Cutlery Company factory collection - all of the old showroom sample knives going back to the 1910 era.

At that time, I heard that there was a load of 5 tons of old knife parts included.

A lot of these fakes started showing up at that time. The old blades could have been restamped by fakers with other old brand names, and Utica did make a lot of the old hardware brands. so that could explain some of these.

There are fakes out there that resemble the Winchester repros made by Queen...since those were quality knives in old patterns fakers could use the parts to make "old" knives.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:02 pm

steve, who were the well known knife dealers?

stockman · Post by **stockman** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:20 pm

I have seen them in the Wilbert, NYK Co. Empire and others that I can't think of now. I have heard the story that knifeaholic told us about, but did not know about the 5 tons of parts. I am glad they are easy to spot. It is much harder to spot a knife made up of orginal used parts than these.

Stockman

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:32 pm

Well I don't want to start any rumors but, has anyone heard anything about 3 guys working out of a motel room in the state of Ten. making up knives and passing them off as the real thing. Supposed to be quite a few of them(fake knives) hitting E-bay. I don't know this to be fact, just read it somewhere I think and was wondering if it's true.

msteele6 · Post by **msteele6** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:43 pm

I don't know about motel rooms in Tennessee but there have been a rash of these knives lately. The same seller of the NYK in this thread has a Herrick Hardware congress jack up for sale that I also believe is fake and the seller obadyah7 (I think it was) had quite a group for sale. At least he was upfront in saying that they were made up. Oddly, the seller of this NYK also has several knives for sale that appear to be legitimate.

The reason I think that the congress jack is a fake is because I bought a Paxton & Gallagher congress jack a few years ago that is this knife's twin and I am convinced that it is fake.

Another stamping that I have seen faked is Cattagaugus, especially in the Eureka pattern.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:50 pm

I also have heard of fake knives coming out of Tenn. from a reliable source.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:08 pm

Well with that coming from you Hukk, I would now believe the story I heard.

galvanic1882 · Post by **galvanic1882** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:05 am

I've heard the same story from some very honest people in the knife trade and they are not from Tenn alone. Florida, Virginia, New York to name a few. I have about 15 knives from the Utica collection and all have been looked at by people I trust. Thats how I heard the story first years ago about the barrels of parts from the Utica Company.

Thanks for all the input from those that took the time to post.

Mike

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:38 am

Duffy wrote:Well with that coming from you Hukk, I would now believe the story I heard.

I mostly collect Bulldog and customs as well as make knives and sheaths.

I believe Mike is correct that the problem is widespread. The unfortunate situation is one I believe 100% from friends in Tenn. In this case I was told that folks were making fakes "just up the road". The brand however was not discussed. I believe that there are fakes in every brand by numerous people.

That's a good reason to have this Forum, so we can pick each other's brain and share info to keep up with the counterfeiters.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:19 am

That's for sure. I've already got a fake Case "XX" era peanut pattern knife in just the small amount of time that I've started collecting. I got it around here local where I live. There were several things that talked to me when I was reading it that told me it was fake. The main thing that told me that this knife was a fake with a Frost frame re-bladed with a Case XX era master blade was that I have a Frost peanut frame, Frost called it "The Bullet", exactly like the fake but with the original SS good for nothing POS blades in it. I had gave the real Bullet peanut Frost to my youngest son when he was younger, in case if he lost it he wouldn't have lost very much. I looked at the real Frost and compaired it to the fake knife. Exact same smooth bone handles, SS back spring and everything except, the fake had the Case XX carbon master blade and the second smaller pen blade had the nail nick on the wrong side as to where you had to open the master blade before you could open the second pen blade. There was plenty of use still left in the Case XX carbon blades so my Dad wanted it as a user and I gave it to him. I did take a center punch and carved FAKE in both handles. He said the fake knife was worth more as a user than if it had the original Frost POS, SS, blades in it. At least it's getting some use out of it, that's the way I look at it.