What's Wrong With This Camillus Muskrat Yello-Jaket???

[jerryd6818]

Anyone have a guess why the handles on this Yello-Jaket Muskrat have turned colors? If I didn't know better, I'd say they look like outgasing Celluloid but this is a 1989-close knife so the handles are not Celluloid and we all know Delrin doesn't outgas. Anyone ever see Delrin handles do this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123

[chetr1200c]

jerry, i have no experience in this department, so i cannot comment on it, except to say that it does look to be original coloration. too bad there weren't pics of the backsprings and top liners. it also looks like an excellent candidate for your collection.

[jerryd6818]

Oh, gee Chet. You go ahead without me. I'm just going to sit this one out. Let someone else snag that "eye catching blend of sunset colors".

I sent the seller a message telling her that's not a good thing. I'm sure she's not going to be happy to hear it and I doubt the message will make it into her listing.

[rangerbluedog]

Might not be outgassing, but there is some kind of reaction going on.
Note how it seems to be occurring around the metal pins, backsprings, etc.
<shudders>

[knifer-one]

I'm wonderin what bug eye scales are.

[jerryd6818]

I'm wonderin what bug eye scales are.

They're the plain vanilla yellow scales without the "eye catching blend of sunset colors".

[orvet]

Delrin is dyed, so my guess is that some how another color got mixed in with the yellow dye.
That is about the only thing I can think of that might effect Delrin.

[Cutty]

Yeller Camo::uc::

[IMBand]

Any chance that it was stored in a knife roll/case with cheaply dyed red felt and it stained the handles?

IM

[knife7knut]

I have a couple of comments about this knife:
First of all,that tang stamp is a new one to me.The font is very unusual.
Second;why is the pivot pin made of a different material than the bolsters a la German knives?
Third;the brass pins appear to be corroding and causng the staining of the scales although I don't see any evidence of out-gassing on the blades.
As an aside;I had a Buck Creek folder that out-gassed under the scales and eventually corroded the liners to the point that they broke when I attempted to actuate the lock mechanism.The outside of the scales were perfect but fully deteriorated underneath.There was corrosion on the blade but it was a carbon rather than stainless.I wonder if that is the reason there is no blade corrosion.
I vote that the scales are actually celluloid and not Delrin or whatever polycarbonate Camillus was using at the time the knife was made.

[FRJ]

Here's a knife that's probably been around as long as that one.
No problems here. I sure like this knife.

[caddyman1973]

I'm with Trevor, stored in a knife roll with red felt that bled into the scales, JMO.

[singin46]

My guess as well. I bet you some micron sanding paper would take it right off in a heart beat. Notice how it effects the edges of the handles, mainly. Probably was in a roll and left there for way too long.

[orvet]

The tang stamp on that knife was the last tang stamp used by Camillus from about 1989 until they closed in 2007, according to Tom Williams the Camillus Company Historian.

The difference in the coloration of the bolsters and the pins is probably due to different manufacturers. Just like steel has different formulas, so too there can be small differences in the amount of copper, nickel or zinc in the formulation of nickel silver. This manifests itself as in the difference of color in the metals, especially noticeable with the pin through the bolster.

According to Tom Williams, Camillus had not used celluloid for many years.
IIRC, he said they stopped using celluloid in the 1960s.

I am inclined to think that something, like red felt, has bled dye onto the handles and stained them.

[Old Hunter]

Camillus manufactured two limited run series of celluloid knives in 2000-2001, four patterns each of celluloid turtleshell and celluloid abalone. I own a turtleshell Stockman (pictured) and see a turtleshell Trapper on a regular basis (antique mall) - both are pristine. I saw two in the celluloid abalone a few weeks ago, both still NOS, but rusted on the exposed portion of the blades, already outgassing. I don't know about the material in the Yellow Jacket handles, but I was surprised that celluloid was still being used in 2000 in these two limited edition knife series; I assumed when I bought the Stockman that it was another type of synthetic, but have been lucky so far - however, I didn't go back and buy the trapper due to the celluloid handles. OH

http://camillusknives.narod2.ru/2mainfr ... shtml~main

[orvet]

I stand corrected O.H. Thanks.

I think I misunderstood what Tom said. I think he meant Camillus stopped using celluloid on a regular basis.
Even working at Camillus for 30 years, it must be hard to remember all the special runs of knives they made.

[Old Hunter]

Dale, Trust me, I didn't post my info with the intent of correction (not intended to be a "gotcha" at all), but only to share something I have learned since July when I bought my Camillus Turtleshell Stockman. I was really upset when I found out that a knife I had bought for my collection, and made that late (2000), by a top-tier manufacturer used celluloid handles (so much that I never bought the NIB Trapper that was on display with my Stockman). When I saw the Camillus Abalone knives last month, that were already out-gassing, my heart sunk one more time. So far my Turtleshell is still pristine, but I keep it all by itself on an open shelf 4' away from any other knives I own. OH

[orvet]

I understand O.H., it is all good.......that is how we (I) learn.

I think that celluloid may have been imported from Germany.
That is beautiful tortoise celluloid. I had a Boker stockman, made about the same time that had the same look to it. I suspect the celluloid came from the same maker.

I did not have any problems with my Boker. I kept it for about 5 years and then sold it when I decided it didn't really fit in my collection any more.
If you store the knife on an open shelf so the air can circulate around it, you should not have any serious problem with it. You can probably spot any beginning signs of off-gassing before it destroys the knife. The big problem is when they are in an enclosed area, like the box. Then the gas cannot escape and is concentrated around the knife. This makes the problem much worse and accelerates the process of deterioration.