Case 6172L

[btrwtr]

I don't know that providing pictures of knives that have not been authenticated serves as any proof. Good to have these pictures posted but each knife would have to stand on its own. The knife with the off-color pivot pin looks like the pin was replaced. The picture of the knife provided with the same Bradford stamp is very doubtful as being correct. There aren't many comparators for this OP knife and any similar knife would have to be verified and stand on its own. As testified in this post, such an old and valuable knife would be very subject to non-original repair work and it easy to understand that any similar knife could well have been worked on. All said the OP knife does look okay to me. If this knife is at some point repaired, it would be up to the owner to disclose any work done on the knife when offered for sale. Whether any work done would enhance or detract from the value would be up to the individual to decide.

Contacting Case for information on this knife would be an exercise in futility. The people there might know about new knives but know very little of knives of the OP's type.

[RalphAlsip]

I wanted to share my observations on the 6172L you are asking about. I am familiar with the 6172L pattern as a collector. I am not commenting on things others have already mentioned. My overall assessment is authentic, used, sharpened, broken, and possibly re-handled which all equate to poor condition. I do not have any suggestions or recommendations for actions to perform on the knife.

Valuation and desirability of collectible items including knives such as a Case Bradford 6172L Zipper is based on 3 things:

1. Supply. The supply of 6172L Zippers is low across the board.
2. Demand. The demand for 6172L Zippers is high. The demand generally exceeds the supply causing price to be high.
3. Condition. This is knife specific. The condition of this knife is poor. The demand for poor condition collectible knives is typically low. The 6172L Zipper is not a knife that people would typically buy to use - that is why I classify as "collectible".

The condition to value ratio is not linear. I will use an example to try to explain what I mean by this.

A specific 6172L that is 50% of top condition is NOT 50% of top condition value. Assume a top condition 6172L is valued at 100 units. A 50% condition 6172L might only be valued at 10% of top condition value which would equate to a value of 10 units, for example. The demand for poor condition 6172L is low. Just because the pattern 6172L has a high demand does not guarantee the demand to carry over to a specific example knife. I have attached an edited and annotated image of the knife in question with some observations about condition that have not already been mentioned. I did not highlight the sunken miscolored pin or the blade not seating properly and opening properly.

My suspicion, which cannot be proved or disproved, is that the front handle / scale of the knife might be a replacement.

For reference, I also attached what I consider to be a top condition example of Case Bradford 6172L. It does not have a pattern number stamp which is consistent with the bone examples I have seen.

[QGofLake]

Valuation and desirability of collectible items including knives such as a Case Bradford 6172L Zipper is based on 3 things:

1. Supply. The supply of 6172L Zippers is low across the board.
2. Demand. The demand for 6172L Zippers is high. The demand generally exceeds the supply causing price to be high.
3. Condition. This is knife specific. The condition of this knife is poor. The demand for poor condition collectible knives is typically low. The 6172L Zipper is not a knife that people would typically buy to use - that is why I classify as "collectible".

The condition to value ratio is not linear. I will use an example to try to explain what I mean by this.

IMO excellent post.

[Bill DeShivs]

The blade pin is most likely nickel silver. The back side looks fine. The front is depressed and tarnished. The formulations of nickel silver pin stock can be different than the flat stock that bolsters are made of.
The man to ask about this knife is Mark Erickson. His web site is https://applevalleyknives.com/

[edge213]

Valuation and desirability of collectible items including knives such as a Case Bradford 6172L Zipper is based on 3 things:

1. Supply. The supply of 6172L Zippers is low across the board.
2. Demand. The demand for 6172L Zippers is high. The demand generally exceeds the supply causing price to be high.
3. Condition. This is knife specific. The condition of this knife is poor. The demand for poor condition collectible knives is typically low. The 6172L Zipper is not a knife that people would typically buy to use - that is why I classify as "collectible".

The condition to value ratio is not linear. I will use an example to try to explain what I mean by this.

IMO excellent post.

I agree. Excellent post.

[Mumbleypeg]

I wanted to share my observations on the 6172L you are asking about. I am familiar with the 6172L pattern as a collector. I am not commenting on things others have already mentioned. My overall assessment is authentic, used, sharpened, broken, and possibly re-handled which all equate to poor condition. I do not have any suggestions or recommendations for actions to perform on the knife.

Valuation and desirability of collectible items including knives such as a Case Bradford 6172L Zipper is based on 3 things:

1. Supply. The supply of 6172L Zippers is low across the board.
2. Demand. The demand for 6172L Zippers is high. The demand generally exceeds the supply causing price to be high.
3. Condition. This is knife specific. The condition of this knife is poor. The demand for poor condition collectible knives is typically low. The 6172L Zipper is not a knife that people would typically buy to use - that is why I classify as "collectible".

The condition to value ratio is not linear. I will use an example to try to explain what I mean by this.

A specific 6172L that is 50% of top condition is NOT 50% of top condition value. Assume a top condition 6172L is valued at 100 units. A 50% condition 6172L might only be valued at 10% of top condition value which would equate to a value of 10 units, for example. The demand for poor condition 6172L is low. Just because the pattern 6172L has a high demand does not guarantee the demand to carry over to a specific example knife. I have attached an edited and annotated image of the knife in question with some observations about condition that have not already been mentioned. I did not highlight the sunken miscolored pin or the blade not seating properly and opening properly.

My suspicion, which cannot be proved or disproved, is that the front handle / scale of the knife might be a replacement.

For reference, I also attached what I consider to be a top condition example of Case Bradford 6172L. It does not have a pattern number stamp which is consistent with the bone examples I have seen.

Jerry, as usual your analysis is thorough and “spot on”. Between the posts from you and Wayne, IMHO there’s not much else that can be determined, given the limitations of pictures (without having the knife in-hand).

I also agree asking Case for verification of any older knives (post-1970s) is a waste of time. Current day Case management has little to no interest in older knives. Nothing wrong with that, they are in business to make and market new knives, and Case employees having institutional knowledge have retired or passed on. No one there has better than limited knowledge of the company’s older products. About the best you can expect is (paraphrasing their reply) “yes it does say Case on it and at one time we made a similar knife.” JMO

Ken

[wiseguy]

Well, lots of interesting comments here on this…
Put it up for sale and see what if fetches…someone will buy it.

[iDroolT]

agreed! excellent feedback, fellas!

if it were mine i'd have a restoration done and keep it. my friend on the other hand wants to sell it. that leads to the question of whether a restoration would be worth the investment and whether the cost could be recouped. anyone willing to discuss restoration estimates? of those of you capable of doing a restoration if it were in your personal collection what would you do? if you planned on putting it on the market and looking to make top dollar possible considering the condition would it be worth it?

preservation is important too when discussing antiques. does this old survivor knife deserve to be brought back to the best condition possible, at the very least made functional and thoroughly cleaned internally of the rust and grime? my goal would be to give it the best chance possible of surviving another 100+ years. her goal is maximizing profit. feel free to private message when discussing restoration estimates. [EDITED BY OP DO TO RULE VIOLATION]

in the meantime we'll be trying to connect with mark erickson as suggested.

thanks everyone!

[OLDE CUTLER]

I don't know if you realize this, but you have violated the rules here by offering the knife for sale here without buying a premium membership or opening an AAPK store.

[BestVintageKnives]

I wanted to share my observations on the 6172L you are asking about. I am familiar with the 6172L pattern as a collector. I am not commenting on things others have already mentioned. My overall assessment is authentic, used, sharpened, broken, and possibly re-handled which all equate to poor condition. I do not have any suggestions or recommendations for actions to perform on the knife.

Valuation and desirability of collectible items including knives such as a Case Bradford 6172L Zipper is based on 3 things:

1. Supply. The supply of 6172L Zippers is low across the board.
2. Demand. The demand for 6172L Zippers is high. The demand generally exceeds the supply causing price to be high.
3. Condition. This is knife specific. The condition of this knife is poor. The demand for poor condition collectible knives is typically low. The 6172L Zipper is not a knife that people would typically buy to use - that is why I classify as "collectible".

The condition to value ratio is not linear. I will use an example to try to explain what I mean by this.

A specific 6172L that is 50% of top condition is NOT 50% of top condition value. Assume a top condition 6172L is valued at 100 units. A 50% condition 6172L might only be valued at 10% of top condition value which would equate to a value of 10 units, for example. The demand for poor condition 6172L is low. Just because the pattern 6172L has a high demand does not guarantee the demand to carry over to a specific example knife. I have attached an edited and annotated image of the knife in question with some observations about condition that have not already been mentioned. I did not highlight the sunken miscolored pin or the blade not seating properly and opening properly.

My suspicion, which cannot be proved or disproved, is that the front handle / scale of the knife might be a replacement.

For reference, I also attached what I consider to be a top condition example of Case Bradford 6172L. It does not have a pattern number stamp which is consistent with the bone examples I have seen.

Do you believe the stamp on the ricasso is correct and done at the factory at the time it was made?

[1967redrider]

I don't know if you realize this, but you have violated the rules here by offering the knife for sale here without buying a premium membership or opening an AAPK store.

Was it offered for sale?


Personally, I'd get it fixed first and then decide if I wanted to keep it.

[OLDE CUTLER]

I don't know if you realize this, but you have violated the rules here by offering the knife for sale here without buying a premium membership or opening an AAPK store.

Was it offered for sale?


Personally, I'd get it fixed first and then decide if I wanted to keep it.

"offers are also welcomed if there is interest in purchasing"

Sounds like it to me.

[btrwtr]

This knife has justly gathered much attention here. At this point I believe it is a used but honest old knife that has not been worked on with the exception of possible pivot pin replacement. The 72L pattern Zipper knife in itself is a high-end collectible which explains why there is so much discussion in this thread as well as why this particular old Case knife is so coveted and often repaired to be put on the market. Interesting enough that some of the Zipper examples shown in pics or by URL on page 2 look to have been heavily cleaned, re-handled and reworked with one knife even looking to have had a welded blade replacement. Rather hard to find good google examples for comparison for good reason. The blade in this knife is IMO, near full and I would grade the knife at the higher end of NKCA very good condition just because of the fuller blade. eBay is full of old knives with good handles, bolsters and springs but decent full blades are much harder to find. If a collector is looking for a mint example pockets would have to be very deep and if not, it might be better to turn to collecting hens' teeth. It is hard to say what a repair would entail or cost but I am sure it could be brought to a better working and appearing condition. Given the situation of the knife and seller it might be best to offer the knife as-is and avoid all the potential cost and headaches that might be involved otherwise.

Not perfect but still vaible IMO, NKCA grading:

MINT: A factory fresh knife, absolutely original as it came from the manufacturer, not carried or sharpened, a perfect knife.
NEAR MINT: A new knife that has seen sometimes, show some slight carry or shop wear, blades snap perfectly, handles show no cracks.
EXCELLENT: Shows no more than 10% blade wear, handles are sound, no cracks, blades snap good.
VERY GOOD: About 25% blade wear, slight cracks in handles, may have one lazy blade, stamping clearly visible to the naked eye, no blades changed or repaired.
FAIR: 50% blade wear, blades lazy, cracks and chips in handles, handles replaced with same type, blades repaired, stampings faint but readable with a glass.
POOR: Blades very worn, handles bad or missing, blades have been replaced with the same type, reading of the stamp is almost impossible, even with a glass, good mostly only for parts.

[cbfd]

For what it is worth, I also own a Bradford Era Case knife without a pattern number . Although it is a different pattern than the subject knife, I believe it is correct as a Case pocket knife! I also agree with Wayne as to the OP`s 72 patterns` condition.

[iDroolT]

I don't know if you realize this, but you have violated the rules here by offering the knife for sale here without buying a premium membership or opening an AAPK store.

uh oh! i'm sorry about that wasn't aware. if my post hasn't been moderated already i'll delete it. i guess that means it's time to have a look at the rules! thanks for letting me know!

[Mumbleypeg]

You can find the “rules” for selling on AAPK by clicking in the box on the upper right where it says “support AAPK”, and by clicking on “sell knives” on the home page. Those will acquaint you with the two basic options available here for selling items on AAPK (the Knife Commerce subforum, and opening a store), along with associated costs and benefits of both.

Regarding your other questions, I doubt anyone will give you an estimate based on pictures. They will probably need the knife in-hand to determine what is required. Most experienced knife mechanics charge in the range of $75 - $100 per hour, plus required parts or materials. Some repairs may require fabricating the necessary parts, which in the case of blades and springs includes tempering the metal.

Aside from some obvious clues it can be very difficult to assess value, or determine authenticity of an item from pictures. Ask all you want, but opinions based on pictures may vary widely. Some clues are obvious but many require having the knife in-hand. If you’re interested in some of the things to look for I refer you to the “Counterfeit Watch” subforum here on AAPK. Some threads and posts there are educational and may be of help. https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kn ... m.php?f=17

Ken

[iDroolT]

thank you, kind sir!

[RalphAlsip]

Do you believe the stamp on the ricasso is correct and done at the factory at the time it was made?

Yes. The "uphill slope" mentioned is common on the Bradford 72L blades. If that was the concern. The letters themselves also look fine to me.

[iDroolT]

excellent!

[98src]

It's a CASE/Bradford...before Case Tested XX