how to know a WWII KABAR?

[eveled]

I just fell into the most perfect Mark One Colonial I have found yet. Black synthetic pommel with very fine knurling on each side under knob, same for guard, USN on one side with MARK I over COLONIAL on other. The bold and smaller lettering is I think all correct. I believe the USN over MK 1 with NORD -- 4728 over BM Co _ vP on back of fibre sheath With drain in bottom is original.
Just took another look at handle. It is a metal probably aluminum and painted black. Seems the handle was molded(poured) in two pieces and installed onto tang. The front and back seams are viewable. I will attempt some photos as time and weather cooperates. This is nice a top snap sheath with a belt fitting only.
moss
NOW THAT YOU HAVE READ THIS, I JUST DID SOME GOOGLE RESEARCH AND I BELIEVE THE KNIFE TO BE EITHER A REMAKE OR A REMADE HANDLE HAS BEEN APPLIED IN ANY CASE. I THINK THE SHEATH IS ORIGINAL. VERY SAD BUT NO SCHOLARSHIPS FROM THE SALE OF THIS ONE. KNIFE ALONE IS PROBABLY $40-45 BUCKS. SHEATH MAY BE MORE THAN THAT BY ITSELF.
moss (later in the evening).

* *

Could be an original with a replacement handle. Colonial Mk1 deck knives AFAIK all had black rubber molded handles no metal at all not even the pommels. The new Colonial company reproduces them now. I believe the blades are marked on the opposite sides as the originals.

I’ve had a fascination and love of the USN MK1’s for a very long time. I’d like to see pictures of yours.

[zzyzzogeton]

There is a tag on this one, dated 1942. What says the experts? I don't think there are any guard stamps.

What is the thickness of the pommel?

From the picture (on my monitor), it looks like the pommel is both "thick" (3/8") and pinned.

Is it pinned and thick? If so, it is a post-1976 reproduction as true WW2 thick pommels were never pinned. Only the "thin" (1/4") pommels were pinned.

Could we get a picture of the butt of the pommel and of the stamp straight down? Also, a picture of the pile side stamp straight down as well?

[1967redrider]

Right on 1/4" and was supposed to go to this gentleman. I tried looking up his name with no success.

[zzyzzogeton]

This one is a real WW2 1219C2, made after the change order changing the pommel thickness from 3/8"-peened to 1/4"-pinned (IIRC, some time in the latter part of 1943) but not later than the middle of 1944, when the change order came out shifting the stamps from the ricassos to the guard.

[1967redrider]

Thank you, Sir.

[dragon9874]

i must agree w/ others on this thread... this might be the most informative Ka-Bar thread i've ever read on any forum. i would like to add to the inquiries if possible, but a slightly different take... still Ka-Bar, but non-M1/2... i believe it to be a Ka-Bar Scout.

i've scoured the internet for quite some time for information about this specific Ka-Bar. i've come up empty, other than i recently found a pic from an auction post that was selling a 3-piece set, one of which is just like mine (from the looks of it), i'll put the link further below, following my specs:

here's some specs:
3 5/8" handle (pommel to bolster)
4 1/8" blade
7 3/4" overall length
1/8" pommel
1/16" bolster
peened pommel (rectangle tang)
looks like straight back, but slight drop point
slight swedge
no bevel

here's a link to the auction pic i found:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ ... -to-modern

it's ricasso has Ka-Bar & Olean, NY. since the Union Cutlery Co was renamed to Ka-Bar in 1952 until it moved to Georgia in 1954, i can only assume that would be its age range, 52-54. but, that's all i got! can anyone else help shed some light on this Ka-Bar??

[Gunsil]

Your knife is indeed WW2 vintage. KA-BAR dropped the Union Cut mark around 1943 with the military knives and the KA-BAR over Olean, NY began in 1943 and continued until about 1948 or 49 when the mark changed to KA-BAR over USA. When the company changed it's name to KA-BAR Inc the mark changed to Kabar in italicized letters. Your knife is a model 598-4 hunting knife produced during the war years. Pocket knives made during the war with the KA-BAR Olean, NY mark will not have shields and have steel bolsters and liners. You will find some with the Olean, NY mark with brass liners and nickel bolsters and they are post war knives before they switched the mark to KA-BAR over USA. Sadly, the quality of the folding knives decreased during the war and never returned to the high quality of the pre-war KA-BARs. The Georgia experiment only lasted a year and they went back to Olean, those southern farmers were not reliable employees. By the late 1970s the factory in Olean closed and all their folding knives were made elsewhere, some by Schrade and many of their hunting knives were made in Japan.

[Kevin11b]

Here is my ww11 baby Earlier version from what I can tell Leather sheath but unmarked. Bought it cause I had an uncle now deceased who I dearly loved. Was born in Austria and spoke German fluent. He was a Sargent in ww11 and in the thick of it but wouldn’t talk about it much but in battle of the bulge Course in army so probably carried an m3. Or m1 bayonet but still reminds me of him . kind of off topic but tried to find out more of what he did but have had no luck if anyone has ideas or has researched a relative any info would be appreciated thanks Kevin

[GringoBombero]

Good evening brothers.
First, allow me thank all of you for the wealth of knowledge you have provided for this young Leatherneck. I've carried a knife on me my entire life and always had a couple in the dresser drawer growing up, but I am new to the hobby, or art (sport?) of collecting. I realize that the tradition doesn't exactly seem to be thriving in my generation, so having you guys and this source for knowledge has been incredibly helpful.
That being said. I'm having a tiny bit of trouble tracking the differences in Kabar style fighting knives.
Today I picked up a Camillus MK2 style, but from what I've read, I'm lead to believe this is in fact NOT from WW2 era? Is this Korean War era, Vietnam era or later repro?
I believe this is the "thin pommel", "rectangular tang", "full pin" style? The thing that throws me is the tang stamp, "US" over "Camillus" and that's it. No branch and no stamps that I can see on the ricasso.
Any further info would be much appreciated.

[zzyzzogeton]

1974 to 1989

1974 is when the "NY" was dropped from the "CAMILLUS NY" line of the stamp.

1989 is when Camillus lost the contract for making the knives for the government and changed the stamp to

CAMILLUS over NEW YORK over U.S.A.

[GringoBombero]

Oh damn. Ok, thanks zz!

[DezertSailor77]

Good Evening,

I've been studying this thread on WWII Kabars, and I'm thinking this knife may be an early USN version, but I would like to hear from the experts on this. I've owned and carried this knife for so many years, I can't even remember when or how I got it anymore. The rear of the blade has saw teeth cut into it, and although they were well done, I can't find a reference anywhere concerning a factory made blade of this type. The markings are KA-BAR over Olean N.Y. and USN. I do not see any other marks (MKI, II, etc.) or stamps at all. The finish is a worn blued.

Overall 1

The scabbard is a faded russet with nine staples. There are no markings on it other than a G.H. (not my initials) inscribed on the backside. I've included several pictures of both the knife and the scabbard.

Any information you could provide in reference to this knife would be greatly appreciated.

[DezertSailor77]

For some reason it wouldn't allow me to add this picture to the previous post. Thanks All!

[zzyzzogeton]

Not a factory job - added after the fact. Probably in a machine shop on a ship.

[DezertSailor77]

Thank you ZZ.

[GringoBombero]

Dez, it is my understanding that the Ka-bar tang stamp was changed to Kabar (without the hypen) in 1955.

[DezertSailor77]

Thank you GringoB.

Everything I can tell so far is that it is an early USN issue, with the saw teeth added later, maybe as ZZ suggested by a shipboard machine shop. I don't know how that effects the collector value, but it's been functional knife to me and will continue be so.

[R_Utes]

First time on AAPK, I am a Vet and have acquired many cool items over the years such as a M1903 from the Man that carried it in 1918 - a Colt 1911 from the bomber pilot that carried it in 1943 and his bomber jacket - my good friend served in Korea and had a horrific hand to hand skirmish that left all dead except him and two others, swore by his KA-BAR and gave it to me before he passed - my relentless Vietnam friend did 6 tours and before he passed gave me his Tanto styled knife and Machete he carried in the jungle. When I served, i picked up 2 Ka-Bars, now getting older i am documenting all this stuff so the history will be known... after reading this blog, i got some answers, but also have curiosities and would like input from you guys before i go writing permanent info on these two KA-BARS.
The one on the left is blade stamped KA-BAR over OLEAN N.Y. and USMC on the other side, nothing on the guard, 3/8" pommel with pin showing on 1 side only, the sheath that came with it, i am not sure is original to the knife, has 9 staples, the leather says KA-BAR with the Marine corps logo and USMC below the logo...
The one on the right has no blade stamp, the guard has KA- over BAR on one side, and USN over MK2 on the other side, 1/4" pommel with pin showing on both sides...
Any info would be greatly appreciated, as i would like to know as much as possible before I write it down as record for when i pass-on...

[R_Utes]

two more

[desert.snake]

Hello, could someone help? I bought this blade about 10 years ago, now I found it in a drawer. It was never installed in the hilt, there is only a blade. I wonder what year it might be? I would guess that this is from the Camillus warehouse when they went bankrupt and the sale started, or part of some KIT, like Randall did at one time, but I don't know

[zzyzzogeton]

Hello, could someone help? I bought this blade about 10 years ago, now I found it in a drawer. It was never installed in the hilt, there is only a blade. I wonder what year it might be? I would guess that this is from the Camillus warehouse when they went bankrupt and the sale started, or part of some KIT, like Randall did at one time, but I don't know

This is a blank made by Kabar, not Camillus or any other cutlery company. Why it wasn't ever completed will be a mystery forever. To my knowledge, Kabar never sold a "kit" but I could be wrong there. I believe Kabar has replacement leather disks, pommels and guards available, so you could assemble it yourself into a useable knife.

[desert.snake]

This is a blank made by Kabar, not Camillus or any other cutlery company. Why it wasn't ever completed will be a mystery forever. To my knowledge, Kabar never sold a "kit" but I could be wrong there. I believe Kabar has replacement leather disks, pommels and guards available, so you could assemble it yourself into a useable knife.

Thank you. Could you tell me in what years this mark was used? I'm looking, but my search isn't very successful. Nowadays a similar mark seems to be used

[zzyzzogeton]

1976 to now.

[ZerowG]

Hi I'm curious if anyone can help me establish weather this was a ww2 knife or not

[zzyzzogeton]

It is NOT a WW2 Kabar 1219C2. It is a post 1976 version. Better pictures would be needed to pin the time frame down better than that.

There are 3 tells for a 1976 and later version -
1) the pommel is thick (3/8") AND pinned. All WW2 thick pommels were welded or peen. Only thin (1/4") were pinned.
2) the USMC is very deep/wide and relatively large. The WW2 ricasso stamped versions had very thin lines, shallow (relatively) stamps.
3) the blade coating. This may be a non-tell if the blade has been stripped.

Also, no WW2 era sheath had an EGA (eagle/globe/anchor) stamp.