Seen this Marbles M.S.A. Stamped Safety Knife ~ Is it Real or Fake ~

[sagebrush]

Seen this Marbles M.S.A. Stamped Safety Knife ~ Is it Real or Fake ~ What do all the experts think on this Safety Knife ~ Haven't seen one with the fuller type of ground blade like this one has, prior to now; I have only seen the flat ground blade one's ~ anyways wondering if it is Real or a Fake ~ and if everything matches up to period correct or not ~

[ea42]

*EDIT*

Deleted what I said here, totally missed the fact that the handles and bolsters/caps are mismatched. See redrider's post.

Eric

[sagebrush]

Looks good to me. They had fullers on the very early ones. Steel screw looks correct too.

The actual old patent drawing showed the fullers in the blades as they were original to the design, modelled after the big sheath knives.



Eric

Hey, eric appreciate it, I've searched the web and found some photo's on some of these, and they all have fullers, just like this, and the stamps match, and the screws and handles seem to be the same, although I had seen one or two with the script sweeping across the handle with the company's name at a different angle ~ I'm leaning towards this one being legit ~ thanks' ~ J's, PSK's

[1967redrider]

I hate to say it, but I think this is a parts knife. The tang stamp doesn't jive with the bolsters and scales, which you can tell were cut from a "U" bolster folder. There would be not be a reason for the semicircle pattern near the bolsters. Attaching a picture of a "U" bolster folder from Dunathan's book. That makes me suspicious about the whole knife.

[ea42]

I hate to say it, but I think this is a parts knife. The tang stamp doesn't jive with the bolsters and scales, which you can tell were cut from a "U" bolster folder. There would be not be a reason for the semicircle pattern near the bolsters. Attaching a picture of a "U" bolster folder from Dunathan's book. That makes me suspicious about the whole knife.

Dang I totally missed those handles, and the sad thing is I know about the cutouts in the old ones. Man I really wonder about my powers of observation lately! It's really embarrassing! I totally agree Redrider, that's a huge red flag. I take everything I said in that previous post back, which I'll edit to reflect that.

Eric

[sagebrush]

I hate to say it, but I think this is a parts knife. The tang stamp doesn't jive with the bolsters and scales, which you can tell were cut from a "U" bolster folder. There would be not be a reason for the semicircle pattern near the bolsters. Attaching a picture of a "U" bolster folder from Dunathan's book. That makes me suspicious about the whole knife.

So true, you nailed it, something was telling me, better to ask than to bid and regret ~ thanks' ~

[sagebrush]

I hate to say it, but I think this is a parts knife. The tang stamp doesn't jive with the bolsters and scales, which you can tell were cut from a "U" bolster folder. There would be not be a reason for the semicircle pattern near the bolsters. Attaching a picture of a "U" bolster folder from Dunathan's book. That makes me suspicious about the whole knife.

Dang I totally missed those handles, and the sad thing is I know about the cutouts in the old ones. Man I really wonder about my powers of observation lately! It's really embarrassing! I totally agree Redrider, that's a huge red flag. I take everything I said in that previous post back, which I'll edit to reflect that.

Eric

thanks' eric ~

[1967redrider]

Hope I saved you some money.

[sagebrush]

I hate to say it, but I think this is a parts knife. The tang stamp doesn't jive with the bolsters and scales, which you can tell were cut from a "U" bolster folder. There would be not be a reason for the semicircle pattern near the bolsters. Attaching a picture of a "U" bolster folder from Dunathan's book. That makes me suspicious about the whole knife.

You wouldn't happen to have a photo of the solid bolster 1902 era pattern from your Dunathan's book ~ that you could possibly share could you ~ I've seen some photo's from the web but they were not too clear, although could clearly see that the covers had completely different pinning locations than the U bolster pattern ~

[sagebrush]

Hope I saved you some money.

that and some, this knife has more than three dozen watchers and jumped up to over three hundred dollars in a matter of hours and the auction is running for ten days ~

[1967redrider]

Here's the two he has pictured, one of which is the Wagon Wheel which has the fullered blade. Both have the M.S.A. Co. tang stamp. I happen to have a 5" Wagon Wheel.

*Edit- I hit that guard with a #2 pencil after I posted the picture, rust never sleeps.

[sagebrush]

Here's the two he has pictured, one of which is the Wagon Wheel which has the fullered blade. Both have the M.S.A. Co. tang stamp. I happen to have a 5" Wagon Wheel.

*Edit- I hit that guard with a #2 pencil after I posted the picture, rust never sleeps.

These modification's being spoken of in this article in the book circled in red cloud quote - Could this knife in Question be what they were speaking about and done by the Marble's Brothers and Factory Modification being that they said they had plenty of Handle Material as quoted in the paragraph. ~ Possibly making this knife Legit then ~ it sounds like they are saying that they cut the handles and did the Modifications themselves - I'm confused now ~
Sounds like they were using stock covers from the U Bolster knives and cutting them down ~ which could explain your beginning argument on the covers ~ IDK ~ I am not educated on Marbles by any means and do not own any literature or books on them either ~ it's a new Subject to me - So is it Real from the Factory as it sits and a knife that they sold to the general public ~ with in-house fabrications ~ I'm not going to buy it, but all this is good stuff to learn and become educated on ~ maybe I will buy some books on Marbles one day ~

[1967redrider]

Good catch! There's a noted AAPK member, stagman, who knows a lot about Marble's gear, but I haven't seen him post in a while.

This is a great reference book to have for all Marble's gear. But not easily found at a reasonable price.

[ea42]

They also had these covers in the early days of the U shaped bolsters. I wonder if they're the ones he's referring to as being modified. Here are two photos, one with the early bolsters and one with the straight bolsters and caps:

Marbles Knife.jpg (6.22 KiB) Viewed 4220 times

Eric

[1967redrider]

I bet stagman would know, he was our resident expert on Marble's. If it's not in Dunathan's book, I'm only guessing. But your pictures, Eric, do match what was written in the book. If the OP knife is the only one in existence, that gives me pause as well.

[sagebrush]

Seen this available at around $85 shipped ~ wonder how much information it covers ~ wonder if any books can be found in the public library ~ maybe I will check into this ~ Public Library ~

[sagebrush]

Good catch! There's a noted AAPK member, stagman, who knows a lot about Marble's gear, but I haven't seen him post in a while.

This is a great reference book to have for all Marble's gear. But not easily found at a reasonable price.

pretty sure there is a lot more members out there that know a good deal more about it ~ this subject could possibly grow in time ~ I've had only two safety knives, one bought from a guy in Oklahoma and the other that I still own, from somewhere on the other side of the map ~ these knives are expensive ~

[ea42]

I have the Marble's book, pretty informative with LOTS of old ads. I haven't seen Dunathan's book but it appears that he goes into more detail than the Marble's book. They'd probably both complement each other. Hers the section pertaining to the safety knife;

I'm very much a neophyte as well when it comes to the Marbles knives, as you can see lol! My main interest has been Napanoch's involvement with manufacturing the stag versions of the safety knife.

Eric

[1967redrider]

Eric's post jogged my memory about another reference book I have, and there it is- full bolstered with "MARBLE SAFETY AXE" and game scene hard rubber scales and the scrolled hilt, if the OP knife happens to have a 5 1/16" blade. This book happens to have rubs of the different handle and scale options.

So, it does appear to be a legit No. 85 folding safety hunter.

[ea42]

Awesome sleuthing Redrider! Thanks for the education!

Eric

[1967redrider]

Awesome sleuthing Redrider! Thanks for the education!

Eric

That's what it's all about.

[sagebrush]

They also had these covers in the early days of the U shaped bolsters. I wonder if they're the ones he's referring to as being modified. Here are two photos, one with the early bolsters and one with the straight bolsters and caps:

Marbles Knife.jpg

Marbles knife 3.jpg


Eric

That's a really good-looking marbles you posted Eric, favor them U Bolsters and those type handle designed ones ~ seen this wagon wheel pinned one, but the stamp doesn't look right to me supposedly being a one-hundred-year-old knife - $6,500.00 looks very New ~ real or fake ~ stamp looks very clean compared to the M.S.A. stamp on the one in question's ~ like from the 90's ~

[1967redrider]

*Edit- Schmeling and Dunathan both say a flat grind Second Model Wagon Wheel with a Type A hilt/guard is ok.

That blade could be buffed.

[sagebrush]

*Edit- Schmeling and Dunathan both say a flat grind Second Model Wagon Wheel with a Type A hilt/guard is ok.

That blade could be buffed.

Did Marbles Cold Stamp or Hot Stamp their knives' ~ looks' a little too fresh of a stamp to me and very crisp and Clean ~ like a case classics knife from the 90's ~ Do you think it is possible to Counterfeit these today ~ and how likely would it be today ~ I'm cautious and sometimes a bit skeptic at times ~ was curious what you guys thought ~

[1967redrider]

Can't tell if it's cold stamped from that picture. Could just be the buffing and friction from opening, but I would probably need the knife in hand to tell for sure.