A True "Spilt Back Spring" Whittler

[1fartsmella]

This knife has a one piece split back spring. Although it's a little worse for the wear, I had to buy it. 3 1/8" closed. Ivory handles with 3 circle cutouts on the front side. I'm guessing that at one time had some inlay material, maybe pearl or abalone? The cutouts have been filled in with some sort of clay or putty. The master blade is stamped BRAMNALI/ELLISON/CARLISLE/WORKS. The small blades stamped ELLISON CARLISLE WORKS. Can't find any info on this maker. I'm sure it's quite old. Maybe Sheffield? Check out he photo of the back spring.

[kootenay joe]

What a GREAT find ! and condition is quite good. It is at least 150 years old. I understand 'having to buy it'. Me too, and i'm sure many here was well would have jumped on the opportunity. The fact that a true 'split spring' whittler is a one spring knife is very well demonstrated here.
Thank you for showing it.
kj

[btrwtr]

Awesome knife!

[gsmith7158]

Wow Barry! That's an awesome find. Congrats on that rare bird.

[LongBlade]

Awesome knife and score Barry .. Honestly that is the first true split spring whittler I have seen and no doubt early 1800s from my guess... We had a thread on "True Split Spring Knives"where a few of us showed jacks with split springs but in the end nobody had ever seen a "true split spring whittler" such as this knife viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60976&hilit=split+spring - Just a way cool find Barry ...

BTW - the maker in early days may have been outside Sheffield but if I remember Sheffield was not stamped until approx 1830 on knives so it may be Sheffield - and that knife can be that old imo...

[djknife13]

Great find. Lee (Longblade) and I were both trying to find someone with a whittler with a true split back a year or so ago without luck. We couldn't even find an actual picture of one. We both have true split spring knives, but no whittler and before I found mine the whittler was the only style knife I had heard of with that spring. Our knives, two jacks and a hawkbill, are posted on an old thread under "true split spring". I think yours looks pretty good for it's age, likely early 1800's. I don't know how far back Wharncliff whittlers go. I also have an old dagger with the three dots, which have pearl plugs in them. I believe that is 1800's also. ____Dave_____ I see Lee typed in before I could answer.

[Mumbleypeg]

Great find Barry! I understand why you had to have it.

Ken

[Dinadan]

Great knife, Barry! A real split back spring is very seldom posted, even on this forum. I think your knife makes about four. You note that your knife is a little worse for wear, I think it is in extremely good condition for it's age.

[FRJ]

What a wonderful old antique. congratulations, Barry.

I'd like to know how that was cut to leave such a fine kerf.
I've got some fine jewelers saw blades but not that fine.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Nice!

[1fartsmella]

Thanks guys. Anybody find out any info on this maker? I checked Levine and Goins and found nothing....

[Mumbleypeg]

What a wonderful old antique. congratulations, Barry.

I'd like to know how that was cut to leave such a fine kerf.
I've got some fine jewelers saw blades but not that fine.

I'd like to know that also. IIRC there was some speculation in an earlier thread on the topic that these started as two pieces which were then forged together on one end.

Ken

[FRJ]

That seems like a reasonable explanation to me, Ken.

I wish we knew for certain.
I like the old timey look to it.

[carrmillus]

...........that is awesome!!!1............if I could only find a Camillus like that!!!!.......... .............

[LongBlade]

Thanks guys. Anybody find out any info on this maker? I checked Levine and Goins and found nothing....

I’ve come up blank in Tweedale and Flook’s London Book - but here’s a thread from AAPK in 2012 with same maker with some info but only address - https://allaboutpocketknives.com/knife_ ... hp?t=30725 ... at least street address of Carlisle Works - Arundel Lane Sheffield.... I would assume date was +/- 1850...

[1fartsmella]

Lee,
That's the stamp BRAMHALL/ELLISON/CARLISLE/WORKS The top line is a bit difficult to read.
Thanks for the helpful research.

[Duffer]

Excellent Barry what a PRIZE of a find! Once in a lifetime kind of thing Guess we won’t be seeing that one for sale in your EBay listings anytime soon

[eveled]

Fascinating knife. One possibility I didn’t see mentioned.
Saw the spring in half. Then heat and hammer the solid end to close the kerf.

[Dinadan]

Fascinating knife. One possibility I didn’t see mentioned.
Saw the spring in half. Then heat and hammer the solid end to close the kerf.

I did not bring that up because we pretty well covered that in a previous thread.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60976&hilit=split+spring
I think the spring started out as two springs that were forge welded, but that is just speculation on my part.

[eveled]

Sorry I thought I read that thread thoroughly and didn’t see my method mentioned. Not forge welded just cut half way then hammered to close the kerf. No matter what it took serious skill.

[galvanic1882]

Great knife Barry, I would have bought that beauty also!!

[kootenay joe]

Bernard Levine once posted that the spring was forged as a single piece that was then 'split' for part of it's length but did not say how it was split. Could there have been a specific chisel than could be pounded through the spring while it was still very hot ?
kj

[Dinadan]

Sorry I thought I read that thread thoroughly and didn’t see my method mentioned. Not forge welded just cut half way then hammered to close the kerf. No matter what it took serious skill.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. Like you say, either method took some skill.

[djknife13]

We discussed this topic before and, in my mind anyway, thought the most likely way a true split spring was done by forging two pieces into one and only the section that was to be permanently forged together was fluxed so the remainder could be split. That makes sense to a non metal worker like me anyway so I'm convinced unless someone messes that up with facts. I really enjoyed actually seeing a whittler made with a split spring after hearing about them for so many years. ____Dave

[kootenay joe]

Dave, what does "fluxed" mean here: " forging two pieces into one and only the section that was to be permanently forged together was fluxed so the remainder could be split " ?
Does this mean the two pieces were only forged together for about 1/2 their length ?
kj