WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

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WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by tnorton »

I am sure this has been discussed before but I could not find any threads on the subject - I think of Knife age as pre war II to about 1960 as Antique - 1960 to 1980 as Retro - 1980 to 2010 as Vintage - 2010 to present as Modern of course changing with every decade

This is only my thoughts and my mind is open - especially if there is Knife Collectors " rule of thumb "

I hear people calling antique any knife over 25 years and 50 years and 100 years - vintage is everything else - just curious if there is a Standard

Thanks Clint
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

I wish there was a standard but I don’t know of one. Technically the term “vintage” applies to a single season’s yield of grapes used in making wine. It could be applied to any year - “Vintage 2014” for example. My sister-in-law has been a legitimate antique dealer for about 50 years. She says she goes to Europe and buys what they consider junk, brings it to the U.S. and sells it as antiques. So it’s in the perspective of the buyer and seller.

But in regard to knives they’ve become meaningless terms, in that they mean something different to different people. As far as I can tell they’ve also become interchangeable.

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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by tnorton »

Thanks Ken - I was afraid that would be the consensus answer - probably like you I have knives from pre WWII to made last month - :D
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by KLJ77 »

During my escapades of searching for 'knives', I've run across many threads, sites or forums that present various aspects of what is 'vintage' and what determines an 'antique.' The consensus is; a 'vintage' piece or item is usually considered as 20 + years old, up to 100 years. Antiques is usually considered 100 years or older.

With that said; These two terms, especially the term 'vintage', are so overused in today's world of selling and merchandising that they have become benign to a lot of buyers. Sellers use the word 'vintage' in just about anything now a days...and one of the main sites to prove this point is ebay. I've seen where a 12 year old knife is being sold, and the seller has used the word 'vintage' a dozen times in the description. This just makes me laugh and smile at their ignorance. I guess they seem to believe that if they use these two words, they can justify their outrageous over-inflated prices they're asking for any particular item. One sees this in the selling of knives all the time. If it's got a bit of dirt, rust, major patina, major worn marks, scratches, usage, then they use these aspects as their selling points. That's not to say what they're selling isn't correct; however, the buyer must be very careful in determining whether it truly is a 'vintage' piece worth the asking price. Along with these two words, one will also see the overuse of such words as: RARE, HARD TO FIND, ONE OF A KIND, CUSTOM MADE, etc., etc., yada, yada yada. Of course, they very well may be accurate in their descriptions...but again, one must use discretion, logic and commonsense when wishing to acquire these items. However, I would venture to say that; 90% of the time, these words are used to entice the buyer and to inflate the merchandising tactics of the item...and it's the furthest thing from the truth.

That's my take on it...fwiw. ::shrug::
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by Old Folder »

What’s the Difference Between “Vintage,” “Antique,” and “Retro”?

Everything you buy can be plotted on a timeline based on when it was manufactured, and affixed with a generational label like “antique,” “vintage,” or “retro.” An item’s age is a key facet of its value, along with its condition, quality, and relative rarity, and often used to increase the price of an item beyond its real worth.

The way we label the age of an item doesn’t just clue us in to its actual date of origin—it can also help provide context about popular fashion and socioeconomic trends at a given point in time. For example, we’ve seen before that in uncertain economic times there is often nostalgia for decor from former decades associated with comfort and stability.

Still, not everything for sale has a certified date of origin. Instead, we have to rely on the often dubious claims put forth by a seller. A quick scan of Craigslist, Etsy, or eBay reveals that terms like “antique” and “vintage” are bandied about interchangeably and often illogically. The most egregious abusers of the jargon are sellers who follow this (inaccurate!) “classified” historical classification system:

ANTIQUE. Something that is, like, really old. Probably musty, dusty, and moldy. Probably made of wood. Usually unstylish, or a knife that we would not even put in our hands. When we go to 'Antique Stores' we look for any knives available. However, very few items within any Antique Store are actually over 100 years old.

VINTAGE. Something that is too old to be considered “used” but not as old as Grandma. By calling it “vintage,” the seller tries to distract the buyer from the item’s blatant imperfections. Like many “retro” items, “vintage” items are often either mid-century modern (in style if not in fact) or related to bygone pop culture, junk food or fashion trends.

RETRO. Something that is basically outdated and out of style. By calling it “retro,” the seller hopes to assign sentimental or historical value to something that is simply no longer cool. Or, the “retro” item may actually be quit.

But if common parlance is unreliable and inaccurate, what are the official definitions of antique, vintage and retro?

According to Merriam Webster, an antique is “a relic or object of ancient times” or “a work of art, piece of furniture, or decorative object made at an earlier period and according to various customs laws at least 100 years ago.”

Most authorities consider the actual definition of the term ‘antique’ to mean an age of at least 100 years. If an item is not definitively datable to 100 or more years in age, it should not be directly referred to as an antique. However, I have never called any of my knives "Antique," "Vintage" or "Retro" I just give them a term as "Old," or "Original," than I verbalize or write about the date of manufacture (If I know it) to add to the discussion and history.

Our knives are like great pieces of art. Many of our knives are an investment, just like some of our furniture, automobiles, motorcycles etc.

What is vintage?
If antiques are things that are 100 years old or older, what are vintage pieces? The definition of vintage is trickier. According to Merriam Webster, the term “vintage” relates primarily to wine as Ken (Mumblepeg) mentioned above. and is an altered form of the French word vendage, meaning “the grapes picked during a season.” One of its secondary definitions is “a period of origin or manufacture” (e.g., a vintage 1960s Mercedes).

An item described as ‘vintage’ should speak of the era in which it was produced. Vintage can mean an item is of a certain period of time, as in ‘vintage 1950’s’ but it can also mean (and probably always should) that the item exhibits the best of a certain quality, or qualities, associated with or belonging to that specific era. In other words, for the term vintage to accurately apply to it, an item should be somewhat representational and recognizable as belonging to the era in which it was made.” ‘Vintage’ should not be used in reference to objects less than 20 years old.
I think it would be appropriate to classify vintage knives that were made within the last 20 to 99 years, depending on the manufacturer.

What is retro?
The prefix “retro”—as in “retrograde” or “retroactive”—means backwards in Latin. According to Merriam Webster, retro is “relating to, reviving, or being the styles and especially the fashions of the past: "Fashionably nostalgic or old-fashioned.” Retro Cutlery may not actually be old, but it references styles of the recent past.

So...That being said, I can personally be refered to as "Retro, or Vintage," however, I will not be a official "Antique" for another 30 years.
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by Steve Warden »

I'll just drop this and run...

::sotb::

"CLASSIC"
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by tongueriver »

I am vintage and approaching antique.
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by tnorton »

I will try this again - lost last post somehow - Thanks KLJ and Dan - good conversation - Dan I can't argue with your definitions ( hard to argue the dictionary) - I realize we are generally talking about buying/selling descriptions but I find "Old and Original" to be no more defining than Vintage or Retro.
Old is as vague as vintage and original seems to be about the integrity of the knife (not altered) although I see the meaning defining some brands. Seems we are back to trying to define age by era's / decades - Vintage 1980's Remington or Old 1940's Remington - turn it around Old 1980's Remington and Vintage 1980's Remington.

I can't be to hard on the seller's for using vintage or old as long as they aren't newly manufactured knives - antique on the other hand probably shouldn't be used unless close to 100 years old

call me VINTAGE or OLD but not an ANTIQUE - I'm a RETRO 1960 model

Clint
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by Steve Warden »

tnorton wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:33 pm
call me VINTAGE or OLD but not an ANTIQUE - I'm a RETRO 1960 model

Clint
I'm a '62 model. Maybe "Classic" for us? :)
Take care and God bless,

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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by doglegg »

Kids!!! ::tounge::
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by tnorton »

doglegg wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:16 pm Kids!!! ::tounge::
Steve you are a Classic - :D

Thanks dogleg - :shock:
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by Steve Warden »

doglegg wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:16 pm Kids!!! ::tounge::
I'll take that ::groove::
Take care and God bless,

Steve
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by Doc B »

For Ebay purposes...seems that, for some sellers, if it has dirt on it...it's an antique. :roll:
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by bighomer »

Vintage 60's you squirts go sit in the corner, children should be seen not heard. ::super_happy::
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by jerryd6818 »

Steve Warden wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:07 pm
tnorton wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:33 pm
call me VINTAGE or OLD but not an ANTIQUE - I'm a RETRO 1960 model

Clint
I'm a '62 model. Maybe "Classic" for us? :)
Dang, I'm a 1944 model. What does that make me?

I've never heard (or seen) "Retro" applied to knives. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just means I've never seen it.
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by petesknives »

Your Ancient ::woot::

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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by Dinadan »

Clint - you are not the first person here to wonder about the exact meaning of vintage. I wish there were a standard definition of vintage and antique as used on this forum. But like Ken said, vintage refers to the year a product was made. If a knife was made in 2020 it is vintage (e.g. vintage 2020) just as truly as a knife made in 1920 is vintage (e.g. vintage 1920).

I think that it is much preferable to state a time frame instead of using an imprecise term like vintage. If I were posting some knives made in the middle of the last century I would label the topic something like Knives made between 1940 and 1960 instead of labeling it Vintage knives. Or if it were a broader range of knives, then maybe just Knives over thirty years old. But that is just me. I seem to remember someone or other suggesting that I was a bit overly concerned about the precise usage of the English language.
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by herbva »

I enjoyed and appreciate all the thoughtful, insightful, and entertaining dialog posted regarding this question. I'm afraid that both terms "antique" and "vintage" have become so carelessly used and widely misused that they have basically become meaningless. Oh well........ ::teary_eyes::
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by kootenay joe »

When speaking about knives we can group by how they were made. For example, integral steel liners & bolsters indicates before about 1880. Such knives could be called "antique". Fine old USA folding knives made from late 1800's up to WW II i would call "vintage". Knives made after WW II up to about 1970 i call "older", and knives made after about 1970 are "modern".
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by tnorton »

Thanks for all the opinions and amusement :lol: I had to ask ::shrug::
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by tnorton »

You have to excuse me - I'm up against the clock bidding on something vintage :shock:
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by Mumbleypeg »

jerryd6818 wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:32 pm
Steve Warden wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:07 pm
tnorton wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:33 pm
call me VINTAGE or OLD but not an ANTIQUE - I'm a RETRO 1960 model

Clint
I'm a '62 model. Maybe "Classic" for us? :)
Dang, I'm a 1944 model. What does that make me?
::not_saying:: :lol:

Ken
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by dlr110 »

Thank you Dan and Ken for the info you both provided. Dan that had to have taken some time. ::tu::

Just for the fun of it I have written the so called experts at Sotheby's to hear what terms and ages
they might apply to our collections. I suspect someone has done just that in the past, but I've never seen or
heard it.

As Dan stated the word vintage is associated today with the wine industry and as far back as the Middle Ages,
and I detest using vintage for knives. I believe there are many different terms and ages for items such as cars,
furniture, paintings, and even cutlery.

For myself a knife is an antique if it's 100 plus years old, and all others represent a period of time, or specific
date, and are considered collectable based on factors such as demand, company, type of knife, numbers and
period they were produced.

As I've stated in the past I collect knives to preserve their history. I want my collection to be as diversified as
possible based on age, type, company and the intended use. I want to find the best examples of knives past
and present to represent the craftsmanship of yesterday and today's technology.

Okay, I guess that sounds like a bunch of bologna, but that's my 2 cents worth on the subject.
And Dan my son in law already thinks I'm an antique, but that's okay I don't have to like him.
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dlr110
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by dlr110 »

dlr110 wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 5:16 am Thank you Dan and Ken for the info you both provided. Dan that had to have taken some time. ::tu::

Just for the fun of it I have written the so called experts at Sotheby's to hear what terms and ages
they might apply to our collections. I suspect someone has done just that in the past, but I've never seen or
heard it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I got an answer back from Sotheby's. I was told they didn't have time to respond directly to my question
and told me to check with the New York City Library, Encyclopedia Britannica, or another auction house.
So in other words I was told to get lost if I didn't want to place a bid on something.
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Re: WHAT TIME PERIOD IS ANTIQUE ? VINTAGE ?

Post by ken98k »

"Vintage" is frequently used to describe and older item, however, a knife could be of 2019 vintage.
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