Old Keen Kutter Knives

[galvanic1882]

Yes, nice gunstock whats the maker on that one???

[1967redrider]

She's a feisty fraulein from Germany.

[wlf]

Great haul John,that gun stock is a killer.

[1967redrider]

Thanks buddy.

I would say it's on the newer side, compaired to the others, but has half-stops on both blades. Right at 3 1/2" closed.

[tongueriver]

Fondling new mail delivery; three inches of cuteness, with half stops and shrinky dink tortoise celluloid.

[danno50]

that is a nice one, Tongueriver, blades in very good condition, too bad the celluloid is starting to go.
Dan

[galvanic1882]

Yea I agree nice looking knife but I would pop those handles off now!! I bought a used old Cattaraugus that had green celluloid handles that were gasing out and on one side half the handle was missing. I usually never have knives worked on but this little beauty was etched so I sent it to my repair guy with some old Ivory and I am waiting to get it back. I did not want to lose a great knife because of the handles. Before pics and the ivory pieces attached.

[biglmbass]

Nice Schrade made Keen Kutter, charleeDA. Very nice old bone bareheaded jack, John. Great bone and nearly full blades!
Just got this hawkbill pruner in the mail today. Galvanic1882 was kind enough to sell it to me. Etched pattern number is still visible on the pile side of the blade (K135). According to the book has cocobolo handles and was made between 1905 and 1920.
Dan

Super nice pruner, danno50. I'm starting to get into pruners here lately

[galvanic1882]

Just got the etched Cattaraugus knife back, love that I was able to get it restored rather then let it just go bad!!

[danno50]

Thanks biglmbass. Mike, that looks good, great to have saved it before there was any damage.
Dan

[FRJ]

Way to go, Mike.
That looks real nice!

[danno50]

Just got this Keen Kutter cattle knife. It is a K73477 3/4, Sellens says was in the catalogs between 1921 and 1942. This one has both the EC Simmons and the ears at the top of the keystone (sawtooth) so was likely manufactured somewhere nearing 1939. Also interesting that this one has Cattle spelled properly, most of the Keen Kutter cattle knives I have seen have cattle spelled as Kattle. Another one Mike was kind enough to sell me.
Dan

[msteele6]

Really nice old KK!

[danno50]

Thanks, msteele.
Dan

[FRJ]

Great looking knife, Dan.

[danno50]

Thanks Joe.
Dan

[JohnR]

Dan, that is a very nice one, hard to find in that condition.

[danno50]

thanks John,
Dan

[kootenay joe]

Was this E.C.Simmons Cattle knife made in the Winchester factory ?
kj

[danno50]

Was this E.C.Simmons Cattle knife made in the Winchester factory ?
kj

Very good question. I believe that is the most likely possiblility. Hopefully, msteele6 will come along and give his more knowledgeable opinion. From my recollection of information in his previous posts, there are some things about it that could indicate Camillus manufacture?
Dan

[msteele6]

In my view the knife is a Camillus made knife, mid '30's to 1940.

The first thing I look for is the tang stamp, if it has the little "ears", that's a good indicator for Camillus manufacture. The second thing I look at is the pattern number, normally, if it has a pattern number stamped, a Camillus made knife will include the "K" in the pattern. Thirdly, look at the spey blade, the very first knife posted in this thread shows the typical Camillus spey blade with the clipped off point (as with Danno's knife), the Winchester type spey is shown on the third page, it has a "broken backed" look without the cut-off point typical of the Camillus knives. Fourth, look at the grooved bolster and cap, typical of Camillus, not Winchester. The crest shields of the Camillus knives tend to be of the fatter variety whereas the Winchester shields tend to be slimmer, as a matter of fact, the crest shields on the Camillus-made knives seem to be identical to the ones they used on their regular Camillus stamped knives.

The Camillus-made knives will be found both with and without the "E.C. Simmons" at the top of the Keystone stamp as it appears that Camillus continued making the knives into the Shapleigh era. I've seen a few with "Shapleigh" at the top of the Keystone, but very few.

Finally, the later Schrade-made knives generally have the keystone without the "ears" (and of course without the "E.C. Simmons), and, where applicable, Schrades normal post-WWII peach seed jigging, pretty much unmistakeable.

Of course, all of this is observation and comparison (I collect Camillus knives as well as Keen Kutters) not hard and fast fact gathered from some authoritative source and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt.

JMO

[kootenay joe]

msteele6, wow, thank you for such an informative post. The information will be helpful in assessing other knives as well.
The "Keen Kutter" branding is one that i am still trying to understand as to manufacturer which changed a number of times over the app. 100 years that this branding was used.
kj

[msteele6]

Glad to be of help.

Another point that I forgot. On knives with punches, the Camillus made knives frequently have their "Spiral" punch, another good indicator of Camillus manufacture.

In regards to the actual manufacturers of the Keen Kutter Knives I believe that it goes something like this: at first Simmons bought knives from various manufacturers including the Simmons marked, so-called "Hornet" knives, these knives were predominantly from Germany from what I've seen (I don't really collect them since I collect exclusively American made cutlery), however, I have seen other Simmons marked knives that I believe were produced in the U.S.

At some point in time Simmons bought out Walden Knife Co. and put them to producing the older Keen Kutter knives. Later, Winchester and Simmons merged and Winchester took over Walden's production facilities. From what I've seen most of the Winchester knives follow Walden's patterns.

In the early 30's Simmons and Winchester went their separate ways, At this point I believe that Simmons continued to contract with Winchester for their knives, however, some time in the 1930's they also started going to Camillus for their knives (like Danno's cattle knife).

Around 1940 Shapleigh purchased Simmons. At this point you start to see the Camillus made knives (still with the "eared" keystone) without the E.C. Simmons, these are Shapleigh Keen Kutters.

It appears that Shapleigh continued to use Camillus for at least some period of time after WWII, however, they soon went to Schrade for their knives, this is the point at which you start to see the keystone logo without the "ears" (and without E.C. Simmons or Shapleigh) and the typical Schrade peachseed style jigging. Some of these knives have pattern numbers starting with "KS".

Shapleigh went out of business around 1960.


Val-Test bought the Keen Kutter name and produced knives marked "Keen Kutter", however, I don't really collect those knives and can't say much about them. These knives still have the Keen Kutter keystone (without ears or Simmons/Shapleigh).

I wrote this post relying on my memory so there might be some errors, however, I think that the general outline is pretty accurate, if anyone has more accurate or additional information, I personally would love to hear it.

Mark Steele

[danno50]

Thanks for two very informative posts, Mark. Great to have all that information in this Keen Kutter thread. I remembered you mentioning the ears and the K on the stamped pattern number as likely indicating Camillus manufacture, but couldn't find the thread where you had posted this. Your timeline of the companies manufacturing Keen Kutter stamped knives is the same as I have thought it was. Sellens, which I am sure you also have, gives dates for the purchases and mergers as below:

1902 - EC Simmons buys controlling interest in Walden. Goins lists the date for this as 1911? Earlier in this thread, Miller Bros said that he read the 1902 date in an old Simmons catalog.

1922 - Winchester bought EC Simmons and took over the Walden facilities. Knife manufacturing was moved from Walden to New Haven, Conn and the Walden Knife Company was dissolved in September 1923.

1923 to 1929 - Keen Kutter knives manufactured by Winchester.

1929 - Winchester and EC Simmons interests were separated.

1 July 1940 - Shapleigh Hardware Company purchases Simmons Hardware Company.

Of course, all of this is observation and comparison (I collect Camillus knives as well as Keen Kutters) not hard and fast fact gathered from some authoritative source and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt.

JMO

I personally consider your observation and comparison information to be every bit as valuable as "facts" garnered from "authorative sources" in terms of who actually manufactured Keen Kutter stamped knives during certain time periods. I have also always considered Sellens' company history to be fairly authoritative. I know he is not a "knife guy" in particular, but, he did have access to 28 catalogs spanning the dates from 1880 to 1958.

I have PDFs of Keen Kutter catalog pages from 1912, 1917 and 1939 on my computer, but I don't think any of them are complete. I am a lousy online searcher, if anyone has any other online references for other Keen Kutter catalog pages I would sure appreciate you passing them along.

Dan

[danno50]

Four new to me Keen Kutters arrived yesterday, thanks once again to Mike (galvanic1882). The bareheaded jack is a K2288, 3 1/2" long. The next jack is a K2623, 3 3/4" long. The lobster/orange blossom (K60466, I believe?) is 3 1/3" in length and the toothpick (K1898 3/4) is 5" in length.