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Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:11 pm
by amandalew_27
Does anyone know what type of knife this is and when it was most likely made? Unfortunately, we cannot remove the Rust to uncover any brand name or serial number. Please let me know your thoughts and truly appreciate it!
UPDATED: I know these pictures are still trash, but I gathered more screenshots to showcase some of the other details of the knife in case this helps in any way.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 9:52 pm
by FRJ
The knife is known as a "Barlow" style knife.
They can sometimes be identified by the shape/design of the bolster.
Closer and clearer pictures of the handle and the blades might be of help.
I hope you get better help from others.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:06 pm
by knifeaholic
Looks like a Kutmaster, 1950's to early 60's.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:52 pm
by Gunsil
I agree, likely a Utica/Kutmaster with the aluminum bolster. Did you find it with a metal detector? Pocket knives are one of the most common metal detector finds and I have never heard of one being involved in a "cold case".
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:24 am
by amandalew_27
It was found in the possessions of someone we believe used a pocket knife to commit a very serious crime in the late 1980s. Any ideas on how long it would take something like this to rust (in Florida)? How likely is it a knife like this could've been produced after 1989?
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:46 am
by msteele6
I once put one of my knives thru the washing machine, it rusted in a matter of days.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 10:06 am
by Paladin
amandalew_27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:24 am
It was found in the possessions of someone we believe used a pocket knife to commit a very serious crime in the late 1980s. Any ideas on how long it would take something like this to rust (in Florida)? How likely is it a knife like this could've been produced after 1989?
I think better photos are needed (necessary) in order to answer your questions.
Ray
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 10:33 am
by knifeaholic
Looking at it again, it could be a Robeson from the 1950's. A Kutmaster of that era would have iron bolsters. Those bolsters are clean with no pitting.
Also it appears that the pen blade is in the back - that would be Robeson not Kutmaster. Still would be 1950's to early 60's.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 3:27 pm
by FRJ
Here's a Robeson of that era.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:00 pm
by Mumbleypeg
In your post it says “we cannot remove the rust”. You did not say whether that is because trying to do so is prohibited due to tampering with evidence. Or because you have tried unsuccessfully.
If the latter, an old tried and true technique used by knife collectors for that purpose is the graphite (lead) end of a sharpened pencil. The graphite is harder than rust but softer than steel, therefore it will remove rust without damaging the blade or its stamp. Scrub the tang area of the master blade with the pencil lead, then wipe it with a soft cloth to remove the pencil markings, along with any accumulated loosened rust and dirt. If there is any manufacturer stamp present/remaining that should expose it and hopefully make it legible.
A clear in-focus picture of the stamp may be recognized by someone here. We have members who excel at that.
Be aware that even the most legible stamp may only reveal the date of manufacture to within an approximate time period. Depending on the knife manufacturer that could be a time period of ten or twenty years, or even longer. Until the last 40-50 years factories did not keep records of when stamps were changed. We won’t know until we can see it.
Ken
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:38 pm
by SwedgeHead
The nail nick design is also an indicator for brand/manufacturer.
Ken offers great advice on the graphite/pencil trick and some clear specific pics on the blades could very well help.
(with some zooming in on the tang stamp area)
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 2:54 am
by amandalew_27
Thank you all, truly.
This tip for rust is very helpful, but unfortunately we cannot remove it yet because we do not want to contaminate the evidence. I am in Maryland and the knife is in Florida so I am not able to get close enough to get a better picture. The person who provided the picture was very helpful but should not have touched it without gloves. We need to preserve any chain of custody at this points and Ido not want to ask for better pictures, but I will work on it!
I actually have a video but it would not let me post here. If any of you know how I can upload that I will absolutely do so. Most of the pictures are so bad because they are screenshots of the video. I removed the sound from it and had it ready to go, but I wasn't able to upload here. If any of you want me to message you with it, I can do that too.
You've already provided me with crucial information about the era! In about a month, I will be able to get down there and see it in person but it's a really important for us to get the size of the blade(s) and knowing that it was not made after 1989 is a crucial piece of information. The other hope is that this person would've kept the knife in their possession since then, until about 2022. Since then, it's just been sitting.
Since I'm not able to get my hands on it and I'm worried about potential contamination, I wanted to order an identical knife in the meantime. I have ordered a Barlow Cutmaster but now it's looking like I may need to look into getting the Robeson as well.
What do you all think about there being a possible "R" or "B" here or am I seeing things? Obviously getting a better look will help, but it looks to me like the engraving could've been worn down overtime.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 3:36 am
by amandalew_27
knifeaholic wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 10:33 am
Looking at it again, it could be a Robeson from the 1950's. A Kutmaster of that era would have iron bolsters. Those bolsters are clean with no pitting.
Also it appears that the pen blade is in the back - that would be Robeson not Kutmaster. Still would be 1950's to early 60's.
This is really helpful. Could you look at the new pictures I uploaded and see if this helps you narrow it down? You rock!
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 3:37 am
by amandalew_27
SwedgeHead wrote: ↑Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:38 pm
The nail nick design is also an indicator for brand/manufacturer.
Ken offers great advice on the graphite/pencil trick and some clear specific pics on the blades could very well help.
(with some zooming in on the tang stamp area)
I added the best pictures I could from the video as per my most recent comment. Tried to get better look of that area for yall
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:10 am
by amandalew_27
What are thoughts on Case? Looking at the nail nicks and the kicks, I could see it but this is just from my very recent research so certainly want your thoughts here.
Examples of one I found attached.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 12:04 pm
by 1967redrider
amandalew_27 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:10 am
What are thoughts on Case? Looking at the nail nicks and the kicks, I could see it but this is just from my very recent research so certainly want your thoughts here.
Examples of one I found attached.
Definitely not a Case knife.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 12:05 pm
by Gunsil
Your knife was not a Case.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 12:50 pm
by knifeaholic
amandalew_27 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:10 am
What are thoughts on Case? Looking at the nail nicks and the kicks, I could see it but this is just from my very recent research so certainly want your thoughts here.
Examples of one I found attached.
Not Case - Case barlows do not have the rounded bolster end.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 12:56 pm
by amandalew_27
Ok so not a Case. Most still think Kutmaster or do folks think Robeson? Any other contenders?
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 2:46 pm
by SwedgeHead
being a Barlow there are so many in that pattern.
Higher definition pics with blades open and on both sides are going to help.
The Robeson above looks to have larger nail nicks than your but again, hard to tell from available pics.
The number of pins and their placement is also an identifier.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 3:23 pm
by knifeaholic
amandalew_27 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 12:56 pm
Ok so not a Case. Most still think Kutmaster or do folks think Robeson? Any other contenders?
My vote is still Robeson. Kutmasters with the plain bolsters and bone handles had iron bolsters, which would have pitted badly. Later examples with Delrin handles had nickel silver bolsters, but would have BARLOW stamped in the bolster.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 3:25 pm
by FRJ
amandalew_27 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 2:54 am
This tip for rust is very helpful,
So, you can't trust the people in Florida to participate in the "investigation"? They are contaminating the evidence?
You can't trust them to measure the blades? And all this information you're offering; My, my. what a truly vexing situation.
And you're asking us, that is, you're wanting us to give you information on this critical piece of evidence.
What if we fail! Oh, the burden!
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:08 pm
by ea42
I'm with knifeaholic, I think it's a Robeson. I've never seen a Kutmaster with the pen blade in back (although I'm not super well versed on all of their barlows) and the Kutmaster center pins were farther forward in that era. You're not going to have a very long blade on that knife, I'd say around 2 1/2", maybe a hair more. Here are a couple of Robesons to compare to the OP knife:
Eric
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:24 pm
by Jeepergeo
amandalew_27 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 2:54 am
Thank you all, truly.
This tip for rust is very helpful, but unfortunately
we cannot remove it yet because we do not want to contaminate the evidence. I am in Maryland and the knife is in Florida so I am not able to get close enough to get a better picture. The person who provided the picture was very helpful but should not have touched it without gloves. We need to preserve any chain of custody at this points and Ido not want to ask for better pictures, but I will work on it!
I actually have a video but it would not let me post here. If any of you know how I can upload that I will absolutely do so. Most of the pictures are so bad because they are screenshots of the video. I removed the sound from it and had it ready to go, but I wasn't able to upload here. If any of you want me to message you with it, I can do that too.
You've already provided me with crucial information about the era! In about a month, I will be able to get down there and see it in person but it's a really important for us to get the size of the blade(s) and knowing that it was not made after 1989 is a crucial piece of information. The other hope is that this person would've kept the knife in their possession since then, until about 2022. Since then, it's just been sitting.
Since I'm not able to get my hands on it and I'm worried about potential contamination, I wanted to order an identical knife in the meantime. I have ordered a Barlow Cutmaster but now it's looking like I may need to look into getting the Robeson as well.
What do you all think about there being a possible "R" or "B" here or am I seeing things? Obviously getting a better look will help, but it looks to me like the engraving could've been worn down overtime.
The contamination ship has likely sailed. The knife being handled with ungloved hands in what appears to be someone's kitchen are just starting points. Any defense attorney, even a newby public defender, will attack those likely indefensible points and get the evidence tossed.
Re: Help identifying possible weapon in cold case
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 5:37 pm
by SwedgeHead
Jeepergeo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:24 pm
The contamination ship has likely sailed. The knife being handled with ungloved hands in what appears to be someone's kitchen are just starting points. Any defense attorney, even a newby public defender, will attack those likely indefensible points and get the evidence tossed.
I'm kinda with you on this.
They aren't pro pics or standard handling for evidence, but I'm treating this just like our mystery knife game, and if it happens to help someone all the better.