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1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 5:14 pm
by methadoneman
Hell Doesn't Close At Night 1990 1 of 800 on the main blade. It has several cracks in the scales. What causes those cracks besides dropping the knife or something like that. I've babied it for 20 years and it's gotten another crack or two since I have had it.
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Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 5:51 pm
by philco
The handles on that knife are celluloid. Celluloid is notorious for breaking down chemically and giving off caustic fumes that can and will damage metal knife parts. One visual clue that "off gassing" or "gassing out" (terms used to describe this chemical breakdown) is that the handles begin to shrink. When they shrink, frequently cracks develop, particularly in the vicinity of the pins that attach the handle material to the knife frame.
There are numerous threads on AAPK where the breakdown of celluloid and it's damaging results are discussed. There's no known way to stop this chemical breakdown once it starts. About the only viable option is to remove the handles to protect the frame and blades. Lots of folks have dealt with this problem and have installed new, stable handles in order to salvage the knife.
I'd encourage you to promptly remove this knife from any other knives you may have it stored with. As with bad apples, one out gassing knife can (and will) spoil the whole bunch.

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 6:36 pm
by Gtrclktr-351
methadoneman wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 5:14 pm What causes those cracks besides dropping the knife or something like that.
philco wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 5:51 pm The handles on that knife are celluloid. Celluloid is notorious for breaking down chemically and giving off caustic fumes that can and will damage metal knife parts. One visual clue that "off gassing" or "gassing out" (terms used to describe this chemical breakdown) is that the handles begin to shrink. When they shrink, frequently cracks develop, particularly in the vicinity of the pins that attach the handle material to the knife frame.
There's no known way to stop this chemical breakdown once it starts. About the only viable option is to remove the handles to protect the frame and blades. Lots of folks have dealt with this problem and have installed new, stable handles in order to salvage the knife.
I'd encourage you to promptly remove this knife from any other knives you may have it stored with. As with bad apples, one out gassing knife can (and will) spoil the whole bunch.
"philco" is correct. I recently discovered a similar problem in one of my Fight'n Roosters. There is a lot of good information, as well as examples of the problem left unattended in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=1136472#p1136472

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 7:39 pm
by methadoneman
philco wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 5:51 pm The handles on that knife are celluloid. Celluloid is notorious for breaking down chemically and giving off caustic fumes that can and will damage metal knife parts. One visual clue that "off gassing" or "gassing out" (terms used to describe this chemical breakdown) is that the handles begin to shrink. When they shrink, frequently cracks develop, particularly in the vicinity of the pins that attach the handle material to the knife frame.
There are numerous threads on AAPK where the breakdown of celluloid and it's damaging results are discussed. There's no known way to stop this chemical breakdown once it starts. About the only viable option is to remove the handles to protect the frame and blades. Lots of folks have dealt with this problem and have installed new, stable handles in order to salvage the knife.
I'd encourage you to promptly remove this knife from any other knives you may have it stored with. As with bad apples, one out gassing knife can (and will) spoil the whole bunch.
Thank you, I removed it and it's similar cousin to an empty knife roll I had laying around. I hate to hear that because it's a well made knife and I love the red color.

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 3:58 pm
by Gtrclktr-351
Isolating your 2 Roosters will save the rest of your collection but will not stop the damage that has already started. Below I'll share advice and pictures from my Fight'n Rooster outgassiing knife thread.


Mumbleypeg wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 6:45 pm Yes, that is an early sign of outgassing. Once it begins I know of no method to stop it, short of removing the offending covers. Fight’n Roosters and other German-made knives of the past 30-40 years are notorious for outgassing. Ken


this is a picture of my FR Waterfall cannitler after removing the scales and attempting to clean the corrosion
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Reverand wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 3:09 am Now that the handled are gone, scrub the knife with baking soda and an old toothbrush.
orvet wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 3:19 am What Scott said is true, scrub it with baking soda and water and then dry it out well. I used compressed air to dry knives that I've cleaned.
Miller Bro's wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 9:14 pm Here's my knife, let yours go too long and it will look like this one ::disgust::
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Hope this helps. I'm going to attempt to rehandle mine myself. If you don't feel comfortable trying to rehandle your knives, search AAPK for knife mechanics that can do the job for you. Three I found, but have not contacted, are Kaleb Reynolds(AKA "muskrat man"), Gary Claxon, and Bill Deshivs. You can find examples of their work by searching by member name.

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:06 pm
by Mumbleypeg
methadoneman wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 7:39 pm
Thank you, I removed it and it's similar cousin to an empty knife roll I had laying around. I hate to hear that because it's a well made knife and I love the red color.
Knife rolls and celluloid are a combustible mix. Knife rolls originated as “salesman’s rolls” - a convenient way for traveling knife salesmen to transport and display their wares to potential customers. In the process they were by definition frequently unrolled, shown, and re-rolled. Repeat often.

They were not intended to be long term storage. But with the popularity of knife collecting some got the idea of using them for storage. There are horror stories of collectors unrolling their knives only to find a disaster of knives in various states of decline. There are others who swear by them. IMHO they just haven’t experienced the disaster - yet. Or they unroll and “air out” often enough to have avoided the problem.

Some will say I’m an alarmist. I personally experienced what I described. You can find numerous posts here recounting similar experiences - too many to be a mere coincidence. Here is just one example which happens to address both celluloid outgassing and the perils of storing knives long term in knife rolls. viewtopic.php?p=54160#p54160

Ken

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:20 pm
by methadoneman
Mumbleypeg wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 5:06 pm
methadoneman wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 7:39 pm
Thank you, I removed it and it's similar cousin to an empty knife roll I had laying around. I hate to hear that because it's a well made knife and I love the red color.
Knife rolls and celluloid are a combustible mix. Knife rolls originated as “salesman’s rolls” - a convenient way for traveling knife salesmen to transport and display their wares to potential customers. In the process they were by definition frequently unrolled, shown, and re-rolled. Repeat often.

They were not intended to be long term storage. But with the popularity of knife collecting some got the idea of using them for storage. There are horror stories of collectors unrolling their knives only to find a disaster of knives in various states of decline. There are others who swear by them. IMHO they just haven’t experienced the disaster - yet. Or they unroll and “air out” often enough to have avoided the problem.

Some will say I’m an alarmist. I personally experienced what I described. You can find numerous posts here recounting similar experiences - too many to be a mere coincidence. Here is just one example which happens to address both celluloid outgassing and the perils of storing knives long term in knife rolls. viewtopic.php?p=54160#p54160

Ken
Are these 2 knives celluloid as well because of they are I will separate them from my other knives too.

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 5:29 pm
by Mumbleypeg
They look like celluloid to me. If in doubt, take them out. Why risk it?

Ken

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 6:38 pm
by 1967redrider
methadoneman wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 5:20 pm Are these 2 knives celluloid as well because of they are I will separate them from my other knives too.

I think the Canoe is MOTS, Mother of Toilet Seat, and it should be fine. I have one just like it. ::tu:: Outgassing on Fight'N Roosters and Bulldogs, to name 2, can be bad. Both are from the Obertz Factory in Germany. Bluegrass Winchesters are bad too. 😉

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Mon May 27, 2024 8:42 pm
by methadoneman
I made a post in the knife repair asking if anyone would be interested in rehandling my knives. Does anyone have a guess at what it costs to get someone to do this? My other option is to take them to the knife show in Lexington in August and sell them to someone who can take care of them right.

Re: 1990 Fight N Rooster

Posted: Mon May 27, 2024 9:25 pm
by Gtrclktr-351
methadoneman wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 8:42 pm I made a post in the knife repair asking if anyone would be interested in rehandling my knives. Does anyone have a guess at what it costs to get someone to do this? My other option is to take them to the knife show in Lexington in August and sell them to someone who can take care of them right.
I got this recommendation from Mumbleypeg in my thread about my outgassing Rooster.
Mumbleypeg wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 8:21 pm
Gtrclktr-351 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 7:41 pm Thanks to all who replied. I was afraid of the answer, but not surprised. Any recommendations for AAPK knife mechanics?


Go here viewforum.php?f=37. Find a member who does replacement of handle covers, and whose work you like. Send a PM or email to them (more than one person if you wish) requesting what you want done, with pictures of the knife. From there you will likely get a reply.

My recommendation is do NOT simply make a post asking who wants to work on your knife. From personal experience you’re not likely to get a response. Most good knife mechanics already have a backlog of work so they rarely need to solicit it. And expect to pay a good mechanic for a good job.

Ken

I searched the linked forum and saw some really fine rehandle jobs. I made not of the "mechanics", but decided to attempt to rectify the problem myself. If I find it to be "above my pay grade", I will reach out to one, or more of the professional knife mechanics here at AAPK.