Page 1 of 1
Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 10:45 pm
by QTCut5
About 20 years ago my brother in law's father passed away and my BIL acquired his father's old Camillus that he had carried and used for many years. My 65 yr old BIL says he could not remember his father ever not having it on him. He was wondering if I could tell him anything about it, specifically what the pattern name/number is and the approximate year of manufacturer. But, not being a Camillus collector myself, I really couldn't tell him much and I'm hoping someone here with a little Camillus knowledge can help me out.
I believe it might be an Equal End or Cigar pattern, but don't know a pattern number or if that's what Camillus called it. Based on the tang stamp I believe it would be considered a "long line", but I don't know what if anything that reveals about its age. There are no other markings on any of the blades.
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:59 pm
by treefarmer
Q, The tang stamp chart appears to support the years 1960-1976.
Treefarmer
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:29 am
by QTCut5
Thanks, Philip
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 pm
by Ripster
QTCut5 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:29 am
Thanks, Philip
Hello Q . Did some checking on the Camillus catalog site . Believe you have a jr. cattle knife if it’s 3 and 3/8 long closed. The 1967 catalog shows a number 75 with a clip main .sheepfoot and pen secondaries. They call the handle material “cabone “. Not sure if I have the right knife as the main looks tipped in your pic. Have not found an equal end with another main yet but haven’t had time to look thru all the catalogs.
There’s some disagreement regarding the long line dates . Some say it started in the 50 s and I tend to agree.
Will do more research later .
Is the knife 3 and 3/8inches long ?
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:27 pm
by Vit_213
Ripster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 pm
Believe you have a jr. cattle knife if it’s 3 and 3/8 long closed. The 1967 catalog shows a number 75 with a clip main .sheepfoot and pen secondaries.
Hi JP! It seems to me that this is more like the military Air Corps knife (pattern 14, 3-5/8" closed) that Camillus made during WW2 and later.
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:20 pm
by QTCut5
Mahalo JP...I appreciate the research and feedback. I'm not familiar with "cabone" whether actual bone or synthetic, but the handle on this knife show some shrinkage which looks like a synthetic material to me. Also, I'm pretty sure the blade is a spear not a clip based on the angle of the spine curve towards the (tipped) point. BTW, my BIL lives in CA and I'm in HI so I can't examine the knife in person; I can only look at his photos.
Regarding the length, here's the pic he sent. I realize ruler shots like this aren't ideal for determining accurate length because the camera angle can make a big difference between small increments such as 3 3/4" and 3 5/8" but it's all I got.
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:56 pm
by Ripster
Vit_213 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:27 pm
Ripster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 pm
Believe you have a jr. cattle knife if it’s 3 and 3/8 long closed. The 1967 catalog shows a number 75 with a clip main .sheepfoot and pen secondaries.
Hi JP! It seems to me that this is more like the military Air Corps knife (pattern 14, 3-5/8" closed) that Camillus made during WW2 and later.
Hello Vit. Yes you are correct. It does look like the ARMY AIR CORP knife . Good call my friend.
Q , if the knife is the Air Corp knife like Vit has mentioned it’s a great find . They had both bone and the synthetic handle material on that particular model for the military .
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 1:03 am
by Vit_213
I also think this was made in the early 60's, before the Cabone trade mark began.
By the way, Cabone is a synthetic material (probably Delrin). The name comes from CAmillus BONE. Camillus used it from the mid-60s to the mid-70s.
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:15 am
by QTCut5
Many thanks, gentlemen. I'll pass this information on to my BIL. Always nice to know some of the details and a bit of history about knives with sentimental value for being associated with a loved one. You folks are da best!
Aloha
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:48 am
by orvet
I agree, with the idea that it was later in World War II or shortly after the war. Camillus used a lot of "Shrinky Dink" plastic handles, and it appears that is what you have on that knife. It appears that it is prong Construction, which means two little v-shaped pieces of metal were punched out from the inside of the liner on each end of the liner and the handle was molded on that. You notice there are no handle pins. I will have to check and see when they started using the prong Construction, but I think it was during World War II.
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:59 am
by orvet
Here is a topic in the Camillus forum where prong construction handles are discussed. The information is in an interview I did with Tom Williams and it's on the second page of this topic. I am sure they used the prong construction and the Shrinky Dink handles towards the latter part of World War II when they were having difficulty getting bone handles for knives.
viewtopic.php?t=16356
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:06 pm
by GringoBombero
Aloha QT
I was searching for a thread for my own question regarding some identification. But before I hijack the thread, I will also add my opinion here.
Seeing as how the tang stamp is generally your best indication of the date (unless you suspect the blade to be unoriginal) that puts the long line stamp in the 60s to 70s, as previously mentioned.
Just out of curiosity, do any of the other blades have that stamp? This would help reinforce that the blades are likely original.
This also aligns with what others have said in regards to handle material and construction methods used during that era.
Shootz
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:16 pm
by QTCut5
GringoBombero wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:06 pm
Just out of curiosity, do any of the other blades have that stamp? This would help reinforce that the blades are likely original.
Aloha GringoB,
There are no other markings on any of the blades.
Mahalo Brah
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:20 pm
by GringoBombero
Now for my own question...
I recently scored a cool little 4 line sleeveboard. This stamp runs from 1940-1964 (65?) If I'm not mistaken.
The problem is that I have not been able to find a sleeveboard in this style. Originally I was searching for pen knives and senator knives until I realized the difference (I'm learning) I have found those ones without bolsters, but not in the sleeveboard model like mine. It would be great if there was a model number on the pile side, but nope. Any help on this?
Also, the handle material is what I had once "learned" was cellulose (as opposed to celluloid) which I was told was different. But I guess not? It has that striated pattern which I kinda like, but thought was an organic material. I recently read that Camillus called this maize pyroxylin? Any chance someone here has a definitive answer as to what this material is?
Mahalo
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:22 pm
by GringoBombero
QTCut5 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:16 pm
GringoBombero wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:06 pm
Just out of curiosity, do any of the other blades have that stamp? This would help reinforce that the blades are likely original.
Aloha GringoB,
There are no other markings on any of the blades.
Mahalo Brah
No worries.
I'm not seeing any indication of repairs to my very untrained eye.
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:00 pm
by New_Windsor_NY
I believe it is a type of celluloid commonly known as "French Ivory."
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:55 pm
by Ridgegrass
GB: Cellulose is plant fiber made of chains of sugar monomers. There is a compound made from cellulose called cellulose acetate used in cigarette filters and other uses like movie flexible film and recording tape. Probably not in knife handles. J.O'.
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:36 pm
by edge213
GringoBombero wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:20 pm
Now for my own question...
I recently scored a cool little 4 line sleeveboard. This stamp runs from 1940-1964 (65?) If I'm not mistaken.
The problem is that I have not been able to find a sleeveboard in this style. Originally I was searching for pen knives and senator knives until I realized the difference (I'm learning) I have found those ones without bolsters, but not in the sleeveboard model like mine. It would be great if there was a model number on the pile side, but nope. Any help on this?
Also, the handle material is what I had once "learned" was cellulose (as opposed to celluloid) which I was told was different. But I guess not? It has that striated pattern which I kinda like, but thought was an organic material. I recently read that Camillus called this maize pyroxylin? Any chance someone here has a definitive answer as to what this material is?
Mahalo
As Skip said, it is "French Ivory" celluloid.
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 1:44 am
by GringoBombero
New_Windsor_NY wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:00 pm
I believe it is a type of celluloid commonly known as "French Ivory."
Ok. Thank you. I have seen and heard of that before, but that always looked like a solid color. Always reminded me of solidified vanilla pudding lol.
What's the difference between that celluloid and the striated ones?
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 1:45 am
by GringoBombero
Ridgegrass wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:55 pm
GB: Cellulose is plant fiber made of chains of sugar monomers. There is a compound made from cellulose called cellulose acetate used in cigarette filters and other uses like movie flexible film and recording tape. Probably not in knife handles. J.O'.
Yes that was my original understanding of cellulose. I just thought that it was actually used as a handle material somehow.
Thank you
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 11:16 am
by Ripster
GringoBombero wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:20 pm
Now for my own question...
I recently scored a cool little 4 line sleeveboard. This stamp runs from 1940-1964 (65?) If I'm not mistaken.
The problem is that I have not been able to find a sleeveboard in this style. Originally I was searching for pen knives and senator knives until I realized the difference (I'm learning) I have found those ones without bolsters, but not in the sleeveboard model like mine. It would be great if there was a model number on the pile side, but nope. Any help on this?
Also, the handle material is what I had once "learned" was cellulose (as opposed to celluloid) which I was told was different. But I guess not? It has that striated pattern which I kinda like, but thought was an organic material. I recently read that Camillus called this maize pyroxylin? Any chance someone here has a definitive answer as to what this material is?
Mahalo
The 4 line Camillus tang stamp is generally believed to be from the 1920 s to 1940 s . If all blades stamped it’s the early part of this 20 years ,if only master blade stamped it’s the later part of that time period. Handle material is maize pyroxylin . Camillus ,like many , called that color and style of handles ,French ivory ,as the guys said earlier.
Take care out there
Re: Camillus Knife Year & Pattern Name/Number
Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 12:08 pm
by GringoBombero
Thank you JP.
Yes, both blades are stamped, I should added that as the secondary blade stamp is more clearly visible. Thanks for the info!
