All About Pocket Knives

All; I recently acquired a very interesting Boy Scouts of America Eagle Scout or Whittler knife. These were made by Camillus from 1947-1969 according to Allen McBroom’s (site administrator) of ScoutKnives.net. This particular knife is tang stamped Cornwall Knife Co New York. My understanding is that Cornwall ceased production in the late 1930’s, but I have found no information online to substantiate this, and hopefully someone here might shed light on their history. From reading posts on this forum- Cornwall did produce for or was associated in some way with with Camillus. Information on their relationship would also be appreciated. I am trying to substantiate that this is perhaps a very early example, and any help is appreciated! Tony

Not an Official Scout knife, it’s a Camillus frame with a Cornwall main blade. Cornwalls only contribution to Scout knives were promotional knives that you could win for selling boys life subscriptions. Sorry for the news.

Tom; So how did a Cornwall blade get onto a Camillus main frame? Was not Cornwall associated with Camillus? Here is the knife as found- it was not altered. Also- here is a posting of the Camillus version of this knife in Scout Knives.net.

Hey Tony! Nice knife original or not, and to AAPK!

bestgear wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:42 am Not an Official Scout knife, it’s a Camillus frame with a Cornwall main blade. Cornwalls only contribution to Scout knives were promotional knives that you could win for selling boys life subscriptions. Sorry for the news.

Agreed. Cornwall knives were unofficial scout knives. This artifact is a bit of a mystery but I suspect someone replaced the main blade on this Camillus scout.

What a sweet find.

mgbbrown wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:55 amas found- it was not altered

how do you know that?

I’ve collected Scout knives since 1964 and have over 500 unique examples and IMHO that’s not a factory commissioned knife (leaving room for the rogue worker that cobbled together whatever they could)

I shared your post with 2 other well known Scout knife collectors and we are all in agreement. Dunlop knives were used in the same manner as Cornwall.

Thank you Mad Marco! I am looking for answers and Tom offered no substantiation to his comments or answered my questions regarding Cornwall’s association with Camillus or when did Cornwall cease production. Scout Knives.net documents the Camillus version as an official knife, and it is indeed listed as an official knife under their Camillus page- not as an unofficial Scout Knife and not as a Boy’s Life contest knife or promotional knife. It is listed as BSA number 1047 and is designated by the SKN Scout Nomenclature as CAMW3E.

mgbbrown wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:12 amI am looking for answers and Tom offered no substantiation to his comments or answered my questions regarding Cornwall’s association with Camillus or when did Cornwall cease production. Scout Knives.net documents the Camillus version as an official knife, and it is indeed listed as an official knife under their Camillus page- not as an unofficial Scout Knife and not as a Boy’s Life contest knife or promotional knife. It is listed as BSA number 1047 and is designated by the SKN Scout Nomenclature as CAMW3E.

IMHO, your knife is a Camillus frame (same one that Scout Knives.net lists) that was disassembled, the Camillus blade removed and replaced with a Cornwall main blade. I’m in the process of moving and my Scout knife books are packed away so I cannot answer your questions regarding Cornwall’s association with Camillus or when did Cornwall cease production, sorry.

mgbbrown wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:12 am Thank you Mad Marco! I am looking for answers and Tom offered no substantiation to his comments or answered my questions regarding Cornwall’s association with Camillus or when did Cornwall cease production. Scout Knives.net documents the Camillus version as an official knife, and it is indeed listed as an official knife under their Camillus page- not as an unofficial Scout Knife and not as a Boy’s Life contest knife or promotional knife. It is listed as BSA number 1047 and is designated by the SKN Scout Nomenclature as CAMW3E.

Camillus scouts have Camillus tang stamps. If you look at your picture that shows the back springs, you can tell the knife has been apart due to the separation between the springs and the liners. The main blade is not original to this knife - it was added later. The rest of the knife was an original official scout.

Believe me- I am trying to figure it out myself and not argue. I showed the knife to Glen Brooks in Tennessee who custom makes and restores knives- he thinks it is indeed strange, but it is his opinion it was not altered. He thought the pins have not been removed to replace the main blade. The knife is on its way to him for inspection and we will get to the bottom of this issue! Again- I am hoping to sort this out- I am more interested in the truth and not married to the knife I assure you!

Per Goins & Leveins , Cornwall knife company tang stamp criteria 1930s
The knife in question is criteria 1970s with tenderfoot shield .
Blade is 40+ years older than when that knife was made .
No doubt the master blade was replaced .

Mike

mgbbrown wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:38 amGlen Brooks in Tennessee … knife is on its way to him for inspection

ask Mr Brooks about the use of a shim that’s too thick hence when it was peened it did not firm up properly. No doubt -100% - the knife in question had been apart.

Your knife is a conundrum. After looking at Goins Encyclopedia, Holbrook’s Official Scout Blades, and Kerr’s 600 Scout Knives I find only a reference to four Cornwall unofficial “scout” knives. According to Kerr they were associated with Boy’s Life magazine as prize give-away promotion but were not “official” BSA knives. They were all knives having a “banner” shield. Kerr says “Cornwall Knife Co. (probably between 1913 - 1930).” There is no mention of Cornwall being associated with Camillus, but there are numerous Camillus official BSA and unofficial scout knives discussed in his book, including pictures. Holbrook has no mention of Cornwall. He does discuss Camillus at length. I infer from his illustrations that the 3-blade swell center pattern (like your knife) first appeared as an official BSA knife in 1947, and having a badge shield until 1969. “Camillus started making official Scout knives in 1946.” The round “tenderfoot” shield was apparently not used until 1970.

Goins’ lists “Cornwall Knife Co. N.Y. c 1900-1920”.

If Cornwall was not in business after 1930, and Camillus did not begin making official Scout knives until 1946, it seems impossible for the two companies to have collaborated on your knife.

Welcome to AAPK, thanks for showing the knife here even if you didn’t get the answers you wanted.

Ken

Thanks so much! That is EXACTLY what I needed! I call of the dogs and have certainly leaned a lot! God Bless you all!

ScoutKnives wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:43 am Per Goins & Leveins , Cornwall knife company tang stamp criteria 1930s
The knife in question is criteria 1970s with tenderfoot shield .
Blade is 40+ years older than when that knife was made .
No doubt the master blade was replaced .

Mike

Yes, I am far from a BSA knife expert.
However, I can do a "common sense" evaluation of the knife based on two things:

#1 - The CORNWALL stamp was used only prior to WWII based on all examples that I have seen.

#2 - The Camillus #72 swell-center whittling pattern was introduced after WWII, and the BSA version of the #72 much after that.

So, unless Camillus temporarily revived the Cornwall stamp in the 1970's (unlikely) for use on a few official BSA #72's, the knife is a cobbled knife.

After a run of cobbled knives in my these forum pages lately I’m thinking of starting a new genre in my collection of only cobbled knives - endless supply, thru get taken out of circulation and nobody can question the authenticity of the cobble dare me

Consider yourself dared. Next stop, Cobbletown!

When I first saw the picture, I said to myself I wonder what that knife is. And then the discussion started. I finally compared the main blades and this is what I saw. Not the same. Not my intention to prolong this discussion. Just had to get my 2 cents in. Shuttin' up now boss.

Although I collect Scout/utility knives I have no where near the knowledge about them some of y’all do. I have to look things up in my reference books. In my reply I tried to summarize what I found. Apparently that’s what the OP wanted.

I can sympathize with him though. In the past I’ve bought knives thinking they were legit, but when the experts told me otherwise, and why, I had a brief period of denial while struggling with and rationalizing the facts. Fortunately that was long enough ago that I wasn’t able to do so on a public knife forum. Usually I was left standing dumbfounded in the aisles of some knife show.



Ken

Thanks Ken for your kind words. Yes- I was indeed looking for more specific information on Cornwall as to when production ceased, and doing research on this site- there were many references to a relationship between them and Camillus. I have seen one reference place the ending of Cornwall’s production to 1937; other’s reference it to the 1930’s. Many companies had to completely retool after wartime production. Gillette, having made millions of contract razors for wartime use, also made airplane carburetors as an example. With knife production resuming for Camillus in 1946- they may have saved tooling , but sourced steel elsewhere initially, or had located a batch of Cornwall stamped blades close by the factory, or through the past relationship the had. Gibson, for instance- cobbled-up banjos immediately following wartime using parts scoured from factory bins and employee parts cabinets.

I am no collector- it seems appalling that someone would take a Scout Whittler and replace the main blade- spending all of that effort on counterfeiting such an inexpensive knife for no real financial gain. This knife came from eBay, and the seller had such a mix of items with no claimed knowledge about knives in general.

I am disappointed, but I do accept the group wisdom here. Far more knowledgeable than I on this matter!

I understand your confusion, especially not being a collector. All of us collectors started out not being collectors, knowing nothing about it except we liked knives. And very naive. I remember not knowing, and not believing someone could, or would counterfeit a knife. It just never occurred to me. Until I bought one and was told it was a fake.

Why do people do it? The most simple answer is - money. A $20 investment for a common user knife can be turned into a $100, $200 or even more collectable by someone having the skill to do it. Sometimes it’s done with nefarious intent.

Often it’s just a person having the skills, and as a hobby “restoring” an old knife having a broken blade to usable condition, by putting a blade from a “donor knife” in it. (Some of the better knife restorers will stamp the knife’s blades or inside the liner indicating it’s been reworked). Then the knife gets put back into circulation, and may end up being sold on eBay. Often being sold by someone who knows little or nothing about knives. Some collectors simply and naively (as I once was) read the tang stamp, believing what it says, act accordingly. They end up with a fake. In your case a knife that to a knowledgeable collector doesn’t agree with itself.

Then there are those who make a business of intentionally cobbling honest knives into appearing to be high value collectables, representing and selling them as such. A collector has to be vigilant either way.

Ken

Mgbbrown self-effacingly says, “I am no collector”. But he clearly has been bitten by the bug.

This thread is a very engaging read. Novices willing to pose a question, experts displaying knowledge and wisdom; and despite the potential for bruised egos, all is done civilly. A lot of hobby-related website forums do not meet this standard.

stumpstalker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:07 am Mgbbrown self-effacingly says, “I am no collector”. But he clearly has been bitten by the bug.

This thread is a very engaging read. Novices willing to pose a question, experts displaying knowledge and wisdom; and despite the potential for bruised egos, all is done civilly. A lot of hobby-related website forums do not meet this standard.

Thank you for taking the time to recognize how AAPK strives to operate and the supportive brotherhood that’s been under construction for almost 20 years. We’ve become a fairly high performing team and this post is a strong representation of how individual contributions can become a part of the whole conversation without going off the rails. It doesn’t always work out with a “God Bless” but when it does it feels good. I’m glad you found the read engaging.

Just my two cents about Cornwall. The most important lesson of Mr Levine (he doesn't always follow it) is "read the knife, not the story". Goins says Cornwall was pre-1920 yet I have never seen one that looked like a pre-1920 knife. All I have seen looked like 1930s knives by material and construction. Goins made mistakes in his books too, just like Levine, these guys wrote their fantastic knife guides many years ago and much knife info has come to light since they wrote them. They also likely never examined any or many actual knives they wrote about (read the knife, not the story).