All About Pocket Knives

Okay, if you thought I was a cheap b*d before, now that I have committed almost $6K to a belt grinder and HT oven ... just wait

So, I assume it is possible that one would need some kind of mill, be it, micro (Proxxon 70), mini (Little Machine Shop), Bridgeport... who knows what?

If I am focusing primarily on folders (starting with slip-joints, and going as far as I can up the line... )

What tasks truly lend themselves to a mill or heaven forbid a lathe? Are there reasonable alternatives to the process?
Which size/type of mill is minimally "Necessary", or can everything be done reasonably in some other way?

I do have a drill press, and a cheap x-y table for it. However, last I tried, I was not able to tolerate any horizontal pressure on it without the quill spitting out the MT2 like an unexpected piece of broccoli from a 2 year old's mouth. I have considered torching the quill and setting the MT2 in there with a little mallet persuasion, or even buying a cheap second DP and some super-glue.

Other than the discussion about liner relief, or bushing creation, I am not quite sure what the requirement for a mill is. I have not purchased "Slipjoints My Way" because of the review comments that suggests Robinson heavily relies on such things as a vertical mill, and "complete machine shop".

There is nothing like the right tool for the job, and bigger is always better, and more powerful is far better than less powerful, and more tools definitely helps one win the game by dying with the most amount of toys.

All that said, what are people getting away with? In a perfect world, I would want a full sized vertical mill with all the accouterments as well as full sized metal lathe similarly accessorized as well. That is definitely not happening, not only due to money, but also space.

Can I just get away with turning up, my existing DP, and x-y table? Simply replacing the x-y table. Or perhaps there is something I can do involving my wood lathe? Can I get away with one of the tiny (Like Proxxon 70) mills, or do I need at least a mini like the LMS, or HF?

BTW, if your answer is going to be something like "Just spend the money..." or "Gotta spend it to make it..." or something similar, I already know that particular answer.

I am so far behind you; almost all my tools are hand tools, and I'm performing mostly simple hand operations. I do have a lathe which I use to turn pins to the proper diameter and put a head on them, and i'd love to have a mill and a band saw and a belt grinder and...

But I just wanted to say you gave me the biggest laugh of the week with your comment "Like an unexpected piece of broccoli from a 2-year-old's mouth".

Thanks for that!

You're welcome

Welcome to AAPK. Glad to have you aboard.


My curiosity got the best of me.

1.) What do you plan to do? Repair knives, mfg knives, customize knifes? Do something else that doesn't relate to knives?

2.) What process makes you think you need a mill to accomplish the task?

Awfully expensive to be able to say you have one ($800 & up for the cheapest one I know of and it's not very versatile)

Just being nosy.

Ditto Jerry's question above. I'm equipped to take on any folding knife repair I want to do and occasionally even fabricate new liners or bolsters, with a drill press, scroll saw, horizontal bench-top belt sander and a good assortment of hand tools and measuring devices. I actually can do a lot of work, other than drilling, with other attachments like sanding drums and different buffing wheels in my drill press. Maybe a band saw is in my future, but that's about it.

There is absolutely no requirement to use a mill when making folders.

jerryd6818 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:42 pm Welcome to AAPK. Glad to have you aboard.


My curiosity got the best of me.

1.) What do you plan to do? Repair knives, mfg knives, customize knifes? Do something else that doesn't relate to knives?

2.) What process makes you think you need a mill to accomplish the task?

Awfully expensive to be able to say you have one ($800 & up for the cheapest one I know of and it's not very versatile)

Just being nosy.

1.) I want to be able to manufacture, repair, and restore knives. Predominantly locking and non-locking single and multiple blade knives.
2.) Since I am starting out, I am reading everything I can get my hands on, and watching any video that I can find on the process. This question came up mostly as I was seeing one maker after another doing liner relief with a rotary table on a mill. Or some other jig to take place of the rotary table on a mill. In addition, I was seeing more than one creating the tiniest of pivot bushings using mini-lathes and mills. Not to mention the number of people, convinced that they can't drill a square (straight) hole with their drill press.

I recognize that perhaps the liner relief may be unnecessary, or even possibly a gimmick. Perhaps even the pivot bushings are as well. Then I see people making their own Corbey and Loveless standoffs, and so on down the line. So the wording of the question is "off" a bit. I didn't really mean "what are the requirements of a mill used for knifemaking?" what I meant was "Is a mill a "requirement" for knife making?". And if so, what are the specifics, including what I would have to do with the mill task-wise, and can those specific tasks be done otherwise more or less elegantly, or efficiently. I agree that the money (and space) for any type of mill is not insignificant. And, though I enjoy having tools, I do need some justification, since I just spent a whole pile of folding money to get a 2x72 belt grinder and a HT furnace.

So, finally hearing someone say "That is not a necessary tool" is kind of a relief. But that leaves me to ponder, how would someone do the things in these tutorials, and books sans some type of milling machine? And what other tasks will I be discovering that people want to use a mill for, that I can do some other way, but haven't come across them yet.

In Culver's book, he uses a carbide in a hand held Dremmel and suggest he is only taking off 0.005 on each liner. He puts a huge hole in the pivot, but near as I can remember he doesn't discuss a bushing, but rather, perhaps uses a big pin. IDK about doing anything to 0.005 handheld with anything, much less a Dremmel

Crawford on his website, and in his tutorials, does similar things, with a mini-lathe to make bushings. Rotary table for relieving liners.

Similar with Loz Harrup, and Riley wants to use the mill to endmill the blade back square, and relieve the liners, and the nail nick. And the last one I watched Maker's Movement mill relieves the liners on the rotary table. ,. He mentions that he had a jig that he used with a drill press before he got a mill, he shows it, as a broken bit glued into a piece of angle iron that he grips in the DP vice, and manually rotates the liner under an endmill held in the drill press. Which I imagine would come right out of my quill if I tried .

And now I am reading Steigerwald and when he is making the blade for the lock-back, he immediately goes to the mill to cut the curve. (I closed the book and went to bed, so I don't know if he offered an alternative technique).

We had a knifemaker come to one of our GCKC shows in Houston back in the 80's that made his knives without any electric power tools. His knives were truely handmade. I started with very basic equipment for making knives. My approach has always been to buy more equipment as I progressed in making and to know what I might want and need through that process. I have a small Unimat lathe that I picked at a bargain price but I seldom have a need for it. No mill in sight.

Keep in mind that the makers producing these tutorials have likely been making knives for years and may have had machining skills beforehand. Many started out with basic tools and progressed from there.

You are totally over thinking knife repair and restoration by thinking you need all that. I don't have any of the things mentioned, oven or belt sander, or mill, but do most everything by hand. Best way to think of it is, the old knife makers 100 years ago had none of those things and made knives that we all covet today.

I have lathes and mills, but I don't use them on my knives as a rule.
Having nice tools gives you the opportunity to use them for work previously done by hand, and for doing things that can't be done by hand. But using them on knives is not a necessity. Relief cuts in liners -if you feel them necessary-can be done with a file. An easier method is to use bushings, or just don't worry about a few scratches.

OLDE CUTLER wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:57 pm You are totally over thinking knife repair and restoration by thinking you need all that. I don't have any of the things mentioned, oven or belt sander, or mill, but do most everything by hand. Best way to think of it is, the old knife makers 100 years ago had none of those things and made knives that we all covet today.

I am not sure if I am overthinking or not. I am trying to consume as much instruction as possible. Unfortunately, people who bang out knives completely by hand either don't do the things that these people are doing, or they do them some other way and don't bother writing tutorials to share the techniques involved. Perhaps they are hiding them as trade secrets Or simply not the same kind of people who like to write books and tutorials.

Are you of the opinion that pivot bushings, or liner relief are not necessary and therefore don't do them, therefore not needing such equipment? Or do you find them necessary and do them differently?

Bill DeShivs wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:08 pm I have lathes and mills, but I don't use them on my knives as a rule.
Having nice tools gives you the opportunity to use them for work previously done by hand, and for doing things that can't be done by hand. But using them on knives is not a necessity. Relief cuts in liners -if you feel them necessary-can be done with a file. An easier method is to use bushings, or just don't worry about a few scratches.

So, if it is easier to use a bushing, are you manufacturing bushings without a mill or lathe?

Here is my attempt to talk my self out of it
https://www.instagram.com/p/CcrdNJ0Doj0 ... _copy_link

Okay, so i cleaned and tuned up the drill press. Then I used my crappy Pittsburgh 4" vice, and some random carriage bolts, finger tightened, I dressed off 2" of some kind of chrome steel 3/8" rod with a file, and center drilled it to 1/4". It wasn't perfect, but everything wasn't tightened down either, and there is no V in the vice. Lowest thickness is 042 and highest was 069. I was off by 0.0125. I think I could blame that on any number of things, including not tightening everything down, or the crappy vice.

I think I can drill a relatively straight hole without a milling machine.

What is the next task that requires a mill over a drill press for knife making?

You can buy bushings, but they aren't necessary for production of a good knife.

The only thing I use my mill for is cutting nail marks. I don't use bushings nor do I relieve the liners, it's not something that's necessary to make a good knife. Invest in a set of small wheels for your belt grinder and between those and a good platen you can cut and shape any part of a pocket knife. Get accomplished at the basics first before you spend a truckload of money on machinery only to find that knifemaking is something you're suddenly not interested in. Good luck on your new endeavor, it's definitely a lot of fun!!

Eric

Absinthe,
I believe that some of the confusion regarding a mill comes from watching some custom knife makers online. I am sure that there are a few people out there who already owned a mill, then thought to get into knife making, and so they used the tools they had. But I would dare say that most knife mechanics and most custom knife makers do not have equipment like that.
I recommend getting a handful of old beater knives and repairing them first. Replace a few handles and a few blades. See exactly how they are made, and how the parts all fit together. Like you, I watched videos before I started and thought that I knew all about knives - but I was wrong! You have to learn through your fingers, not online.

I started with a blacksmith's vice, a block of wood, a small hammer, a cordless drill, and a 4x36" sander. Well, and some various punches and files. It was not an ideal setup, but I repaired several knives. Slowly, over time, I have added different tools, including a handmade stiddy, a drill press, a $100 bandsaw, and a Harbor Freight 1x30 belt sander.
Right now I am working on building a small soupcan propane forge to heat-treat metal. (By the way, this is awesome! https://youtu.be/FmEb1YZScxc )
You don't have to drop thousands of dollars to get started. Just start, discover how to do it, then slowly buy and build tools that help you do some things more easily.
And most of all, have fun with it!

Reverand wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:43 pm Absinthe,
I believe that some of the confusion regarding a mill comes from watching some custom knife makers online. I am sure that there are a few people out there who already owned a mill, then thought to get into knife making, and so they used the tools they had. But I would dare say that most knife mechanics and most custom knife makers do not have equipment like that.
I recommend getting a handful of old beater knives and repairing them first. Replace a few handles and a few blades. See exactly how they are made, and how the parts all fit together. Like you, I watched videos before I started and thought that I knew all about knives - but I was wrong! You have to learn through your fingers, not online.

I started with a blacksmith's vice, a block of wood, a small hammer, a cordless drill, and a 4x36" sander. Well, and some various punches and files. It was not an ideal setup, but I repaired several knives. Slowly, over time, I have added different tools, including a handmade stiddy, a drill press, a $100 bandsaw, and a Harbor Freight 1x30 belt sander.
Right now I am working on building a small soupcan propane forge to heat-treat metal. (By the way, this is awesome! https://youtu.be/FmEb1YZScxc )
You don't have to drop thousands of dollars to get started. Just start, discover how to do it, then slowly buy and build tools that help you do some things more easily.
And most of all, have fun with it!

Well, early on I got a lot of recommendations for "Slipjoints My Way: A complete method of making a slipjoint folder from raw materials all the way to the finished knife. by Don Robinson" and "Slip-joint folder designing and building". The first of these relies heavily on a machine shop. The second does some milling stuff, but not so much that you can't ignore it.

I could list off the youtubes that tend to lean on the mill, but mostly in the area of the liner relief. So that is where most of my questions came from.

I did some of what you suggest in that I resurected a "Little Chipper, (Queen Cutelry Oar Carver)" from post factory closing parts as well as a country cousin. Now I have started on 6 classic pocket knife patterns.

https://reasintper.tumblr.com/post/6801 ... olsters-to
https://reasintper.tumblr.com/post/6789 ... ew-project
https://reasintper.tumblr.com/post/6820 ... snaps-open
https://reasintper.tumblr.com/post/6790 ... lery-stuff
https://reasintper.tumblr.com/post/6780 ... bought-the

Of all the knives I have had apart, I have never seen one that had a bushing or liner reliefs. But you may be talking about more modern knives than I have. Also you didn't make it clear if this is a business venture. If you are trying to make a go of that, then power equipment is the only way you are going to be competitive and make a buck. The only knife I have made from scratch is a large cigar pattern moose based on a design of a Wilbert moose from around WWI. It was basically all hand made. Otherwise I occasionally make replacement blades from 1095 for old knives that have broken blades.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=62682&hilit=moose

OLDE CUTLER wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:44 pm Of all the knives I have had apart, I have never seen one that had a bushing or liner reliefs. But you may be talking about more modern knives than I have. Also you didn't make it clear if this is a business venture. If you are trying to make a go of that, then power equipment is the only way you are going to be competitive and make a buck. The only knife I have made from scratch is a large cigar pattern moose based on a design of a Wilbert moose from around WWI. It was basically all hand made. Otherwise I occasionally make replacement blades from 1095 for old knives that have broken blades.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=62682&hilit=moose

So far, I can say the same about taking old ones apart and not seeing such stuff. However, it also seems like I can't open a single tutorial that doesn't do liner relief or one of the other techniques... So who do I believe? My own eyes? Or the works of people who dare to write tutorials