I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

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Captain O
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I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Captain O » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:12 pm

This may go against the "social grain" but, as a Christian, I do not celebrate Christmas. The reasoning behind this is as follows:

1. In the second century Pope Gregory moved the date of Christ's birth to eclipse those of Pagan Solstice celebrations. This makes the celebration patently Pagan in nature.

2. Christianity celebrated the birth of the Christ child once. (During the springtime when shepherds tended their flocks by night and the angelic host appeared to them). This is believed to have taken place in the early Spring (about the time Jesus was executed 34 years later).

3. Today's celebration is completely Pagan/Commercial in nature. The utterly Bacchanalian approach to the festival returns us to its Pagan roots. I personally refuse to adopt the "go along to get along" approach to the festivities. I'm not against enjoying myself or enjoy denying this to anyone else, but it is contrary to the Christian tenet of "separating oneself from world revelry". The Scriptures support this.

4. The "Christmas" celebrations frequently involve the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Alcoholism runs in my family, and I prefer to remain sober-minded and not engage in celebrations that involve intoxicants. (Trust me, I don't miss this at all). I feel uncomfortable around people that drink to excess.

I hope, and pray, everyone has a happy Thanksgiving and joyous season. A happy, blessed, and prosperous, New Year to everyone.

May God be with you and may His countenance shine down upon you and give you peace.
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Samb » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:23 pm

Christmas should be for small children who believe in Santa. Just my opinion.

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by marinaio61 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:08 am

Christmas is what we choose to make of it for ourselves and families; we keep our celebrating close, personal and religious. Your opinion is not offensive, a little sad perhaps.

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by OLDE CUTLER » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:58 am

To each, his own.
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Captain O » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 am

marinaio61 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:08 am
Christmas is what we choose to make of it for ourselves and families; we keep our celebrating close, personal and religious. Your opinion is not offensive, a little sad perhaps.
I'm not sad. I celebrate the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior every Sunday. This is the source of my salvation. Why should I be sad?

HE IS RISEN! (That's what counts). ::tu:: ::ds::
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Gunsil » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:21 am

Peace on earth, good will to all mankind. Christmas should bring peace and tranquility, this was the original message. One does not even have to be a christian to celebrate Christmas. Your book was heavily edited, redacted, and rearranged at the Nicene council 400 years after the death of Christ, it is not the original collection of stories that was around while the disciples were still alive. Christmas is good no matter the commercialization, or debatable date, it is the feeling of peace and well being, of helping others, of stepping back from the rat race and making life better even if for a short while. Among many it is a time for the children's enjoyment and commercialization doesn't have to figure in if you don't wish to, but the thought of making things and giving is important to instill in children, to all folks. I don't put up fancy lights, chop down trees, care about the date, I do pray for world peace and wish the good will would last all year.

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:41 am

I like presents. I also like ham & pie, especially pie. Mmmm, pie...
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by marinaio61 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:45 am

Captain O wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 am
marinaio61 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:08 am
Christmas is what we choose to make of it for ourselves and families; we keep our celebrating close, personal and religious. Your opinion is not offensive, a little sad perhaps.
I'm not sad. I celebrate the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior every Sunday. This is the source of my salvation. Why should I be sad?

HE IS RISEN! (That's what counts). ::tu:: ::ds::
Sorry, you obviously posted this to get a response, you got a few. Peace.

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Dinadan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:46 am

I, for one, am not offended by your comment. I rather think that the winter solstice has been a major holy day since folks first figured out when it happens. For every religion! So, since it is, as you say, patently Pagan in nature, why should we not celebrate in a Pagan fashion!

When I drain a solstice cup I am thinking about the long coil of Western history. From my spiritual ancestors of ancient Hellas to my genetic ancestors of ancient Britain, to my more recent ancestors of early America. In a small way, I am a part of that long chain of human development. Just as I am a part of the chain of religious development that arose in the Eastern Mediterranean and snaked it way through millennia and continents to my birth time and place. I do not think it is wrong to celebrate all of those heritages. Lugh, Mithras, Christ: they and so many others were lords of light against darkness, and the solstice was their day.
Mel

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Captain O » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:40 am

marinaio61 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:45 am
Captain O wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:00 am
marinaio61 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:08 am
Christmas is what we choose to make of it for ourselves and families; we keep our celebrating close, personal and religious. Your opinion is not offensive, a little sad perhaps.
I'm not sad. I celebrate the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior every Sunday. This is the source of my salvation. Why should I be sad?

HE IS RISEN! (That's what counts). ::tu:: ::ds::
Sorry, you obviously posted this to get a response, you got a few. Peace.
Not at all. I simply go by the Holy Scriptures whether anyone likes it or not. There wasn't any intent to incite dissent, merely explaining my perspective. My family is dead. Those distant relatives with whom I have had no contact in more than 30 years hardly matter.

Life goes on... until it doesn't.
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Colonel26 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:15 am

Captain O wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:12 pm
This may go against the "social grain" but, as a Christian, I do not celebrate Christmas. The reasoning behind this is as follows:

1. In the second century Pope Gregory moved the date of Christ's birth to eclipse those of Pagan Solstice celebrations. This makes the celebration patently Pagan in nature.

2. Christianity celebrated the birth of the Christ child once. (During the springtime when shepherds tended their flocks by night and the angelic host appeared to them). This is believed to have taken place in the early Spring (about the time Jesus was executed 34 years later).

3. Today's celebration is completely Pagan/Commercial in nature. The utterly Bacchanalian approach to the festival returns us to its Pagan roots. I personally refuse to adopt the "go along to get along" approach to the festivities. I'm not against enjoying myself or enjoy denying this to anyone else, but it is contrary to the Christian tenet of "separating oneself from world revelry". The Scriptures support this.

4. The "Christmas" celebrations frequently involve the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Alcoholism runs in my family, and I prefer to remain sober-minded and not engage in celebrations that involve intoxicants. (Trust me, I don't miss this at all). I feel uncomfortable around people that drink to excess.

I hope, and pray, everyone has a happy Thanksgiving and joyous season. A happy, blessed, and prosperous, New Year to everyone.

May God be with you and may His countenance shine down upon you and give you peace.
Your opinion of Christmas is absolutely theologically valid. Being a protestant, I know that some of the reformers followed the "normative principle of worship" which in a nutshell said that if a festival, holiday, or worship activity wasn't forbidden in scripture then it was lawful as long as it was useful for the gospel, and thus they maintained the non commanded activities like Christmas. Other reformers followed the "regulative principle of worship" which said we can only worship God in ways commanded by God and none other, and thus they did not celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday.

I guess, being the the celebrating of Christmas is at best a secondary doctrine, I fall somewhere in between those two poles. So I'll wish you a happy Thanksgiving as well, and a hearty He is Risen Indeed!
“There are things in the old Book which I may not be able to explain, but I fully accept it as the infallible word of God, and receive its teachings as inspired by the Holy Spirit.”
Robert E. Lee

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by treefarmer » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:54 am

Captain O,
Personally, I do agree with the facts you have stated and respect the position you have taken. I believe that the Easter celebration also goes way back before Christ, Pagans celebrating the return of Spring. I don't believe we will find a command in the Scriptures to celebrate His birth or resurrection. Jesus did tell His followers to remember Him with what we call the Lord's Supper or Communion.
Knowing all these facts, I would find it hard to explain to a non-believer that I don't believe in Christmas or Easter all the while trying to share with him the plan of salvation. At our local church the birth of Jesus is celebrated at the traditional time with a special effort to invite unchurched folks to hear the Gospel story in music and word. In these services, He is not left as a babe in a manger but presented as the Resurrected Christ, the Savior. Sometimes, the Easter program could be used as the Christmas program, the same message is presented. He was born, lived a perfect life, was crucified for our sins and resurrected on the 3rd day. Same message to a lost and dying world, year-round.
Many years ago, I chose not to attend a Christmas party given by the officer in charge of the agency where I was employed. He was offended and asked one of the secretaries to find out why I failed to show up. My explanation was that I didn't think celebrating the Savior's birth in a fancy bar was what I needed to do. She relayed the info to the boss and shortly came back and reported that he said, "I can respect that". Then she handed me the gift I would have received from him had I gone.
Your beliefs are not offensive to me and I respect your biblical knowledge.
Best Thanksgiving wishes to you.
Treefarmer

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Captain O » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:59 am

Colonel26 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:15 am
Captain O wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:12 pm
This may go against the "social grain" but, as a Christian, I do not celebrate Christmas. The reasoning behind this is as follows:

1. In the second century Pope Gregory moved the date of Christ's birth to eclipse those of Pagan Solstice celebrations. This makes the celebration patently Pagan in nature.

2. Christianity celebrated the birth of the Christ child once. (During the springtime when shepherds tended their flocks by night and the angelic host appeared to them). This is believed to have taken place in the early Spring (about the time Jesus was executed 34 years later).

3. Today's celebration is completely Pagan/Commercial in nature. The utterly Bacchanalian approach to the festival returns us to its Pagan roots. I personally refuse to adopt the "go along to get along" approach to the festivities. I'm not against enjoying myself or enjoy denying this to anyone else, but it is contrary to the Christian tenet of "separating oneself from world revelry". The Scriptures support this.

4. The "Christmas" celebrations frequently involve the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Alcoholism runs in my family, and I prefer to remain sober-minded and not engage in celebrations that involve intoxicants. (Trust me, I don't miss this at all). I feel uncomfortable around people that drink to excess.

I hope, and pray, everyone has a happy Thanksgiving and joyous season. A happy, blessed, and prosperous, New Year to everyone.

May God be with you and may His countenance shine down upon you and give you peace.
Your opinion of Christmas is absolutely theologically valid. Being a protestant, I know that some of the reformers followed the "normative principle of worship" which in a nutshell said that if a festival, holiday, or worship activity wasn't forbidden in scripture then it was lawful as long as it was useful for the gospel, and thus they maintained the non commanded activities like Christmas. Other reformers followed the "regulative principle of worship" which said we can only worship God in ways commanded by God and none other, and thus they did not celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday.

I guess, being that the celebrating of Christmas is at best a secondary doctrine, I fall somewhere in between those two poles. So I'll wish you a happy Thanksgiving as well, and a hearty He is Risen Indeed!
Thanks, Colonel. As I said, I am not against people enjoying seasonal festivities. All I desire is adherence to Scripture. I don't want to ruin celebrations. However, I have noticed that the first Christians held no annual observation of Christ's birth, but at every meeting/gathering observed the Last Supper, taking symbols of His body and blood. This is done in perpetual remembrance until He returns to gather His own. ::pray::

May God's blessings be upon you, my good man. ::handshake::
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by fergusontd » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:34 am

::dang:: Say what you want but they start ramming Christmas down your throat in early July. And then give you the full load in mid October! BAH HUMBUG!!! ::lightening:: ftd
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Captain O » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:35 am

treefarmer wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:54 am
Captain O,
Personally, I do agree with the facts you have stated and respect the position you have taken. I believe that the Easter celebration also goes way back before Christ, Pagans celebrating the return of Spring. I don't believe we will find a command in the Scriptures to celebrate His birth or resurrection. Jesus did tell His followers to remember Him with what we call the Lord's Supper or Communion.
Knowing all these facts, I would find it hard to explain to a non-believer that I don't believe in Christmas or Easter all the while trying to share with him the plan of salvation. At our local church the birth of Jesus is celebrated at the traditional time with a special effort to invite unchurched folks to hear the Gospel story in music and word. In these services, He is not left as a babe in a manger but presented as the Resurrected Christ, the Savior. Sometimes, the Easter program could be used as the Christmas program, the same message is presented. He was born, lived a perfect life, was crucified for our sins and resurrected on the 3rd day. Same message to a lost and dying world, year-round.
Many years ago, I chose not to attend a Christmas party given by the officer in charge of the agency where I was employed. He was offended and asked one of the secretaries to find out why I failed to show up. My explanation was that I didn't think celebrating the Savior's birth in a fancy bar was what I needed to do. She relayed the info to the boss and shortly came back and reported that he said, "I can respect that". Then she handed me the gift I would have received from him had I gone.
Your beliefs are not offensive to me and I respect your biblical knowledge.
Best Thanksgiving wishes to you.
Treefarmer
I also find the repugnant Easter (rites of Spring) of Pagan origin. I do not submit a single minute of my time to such a celebration. I have no use for them. The Passion Of The Christ is all that interests me. His torture, death, burial, and resurrection are all that matter to me. Nothing more, nothing less. No King but Jesus, the Son of the Living and Everlasting God Almighty!

May His blessings cover you and may you come into His courts with Thanksgiving and praise! Selah!
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Captain O » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:51 am

fergusontd wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:34 am
::dang:: Say what you want but they start ramming Christmas down your throat in early July. And then give you the full load in mid October! BAH HUMBUG!!! ::lightening:: ftd
Crap gets old, doesn't it?
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Cletus Awreetus » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:57 pm

...got any gum?
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Samb » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:11 pm

Cletus Awreetus wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:57 pm
...got any gum?
No, but I have some frosted flakes!

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Captain O » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:09 pm

Cletus Awreetus wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:57 pm
...got any gum?
Many men gum... but few men chew! ::facepalm:: ::tounge::
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by jmh58 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:22 pm

Samb wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:11 pm
Cletus Awreetus wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:57 pm
...got any gum?
No, but I have some frosted flakes!
Me too.. ::tu:: Every day for breakfast.. ::nod::
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Captain O » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:38 pm

jmh58 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:22 pm
Samb wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:11 pm
Cletus Awreetus wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:57 pm
...got any gum?
No, but I have some frosted flakes!
Me too.. ::tu:: Every day for breakfast.. ::nod::
John :D
I know a few "Frosted Flakes"... (they're usually out with the rest of the Burn, Loot, and Murder crowd). ::disgust:: ::td:: ::barf:: :roll:
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by WillyCamaro » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:41 pm

I'm more an ice cream brother myself, but I do chew my gum!
:mrgreen:

Yup brothers, I don't celebrate "christ"mas as a Christian day. I look @ it as another thanksgiving (lesser then Thanksgiving).

Like y'all brothers, the only sacred days I celebrate, is my constant sabbath rest in Him. Because He fulfilled everything we need to-do a believers, and communion with each other. Like Paul talked about, worldly holidays are just us humans trying to represent the True ones.

God bless!
::tu::
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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Steamboat Willie » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:18 pm

I consider myself a Christian, Albeit at a deeply flawed one. Christian or not, I don’t believe in religious holidays. You either have your faith, or you don’t. You don’t need to waive the banners on certain days of the year.

Having said that, I do celebrate and enjoy all of the “regular” holidays. I see Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, etc. as opportunities to get together with family and friends and just enjoy each other‘s company without having to worry about jobs, taxes, the price of gas, and all the annoyances of the real world. In these modern times I see these holidays as times for fun, relaxation, and companionship.

And since were on the subject, I have been to church with a number of people who are deeply offended by Halloween. They call it “the devils holiday“. Get over yourselves folks, these days it’s a kids holiday. It’s a time for young kids to go out and have fun, dress in silly costumes, be given the junk food that their parents would normally frown upon, and just enjoy being kids. The younger ones need to have their day too.

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Re: I hope this isn't perceived as offensive.

Post by Just Plain Dave » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:41 am

I am a lapsed Christian but I believe Christmas is for kids.
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