Page 1 of 1
Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:07 am
by knifeaholic
These two are each 84mm with a similar blade configuration, with the exception that one of them adds the long file on the bottom.
From SAK Wiki, the closest match I found was a discontinued 84mm "Golfer", but as shown there it has the combo tool (bottle opener/screwdriver) rather than the small blade that these have.
Any ideas as to what to call this model, and when they were discontinued?
Thanks
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:28 pm
by edge213
I can't help, but you might try here: multitool.org.
They have a SAK forum.
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:39 pm
by zed6309
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:16 pm
by knifeaholic
Thanks, but I tried that. SAK Wiki does not show these.
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:26 pm
by zed6309
Top one looks a bit like the old accountant?
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:27 pm
by zed6309
But no corkscrew
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:14 pm
by knifeaholic
zed6309 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:27 pm
But no corkscrew
Yes, not the one I have, but yours is an unusual and interesting pattern.
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:59 pm
by zed6309
Well sat here going through a load of the catalogues on the wiki and cant find them
its a mystery lol , although i love looking for info like this as part of the fun
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:38 pm
by jaydar
The top knife is very nice and very hard to find ... it's a long nail file golfer from the 1950's ish
The Sakwiki does normally say that before the combo tool was introduced in in 1982 most knives had a small clip point blade instead (doesn't really effect the model)
It would be model 207k based on the 1942 catalog page 36 borrowed from sakwiki great looking catalog
https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_gal ... leryId=112
Congratulations on finding one in excellent condition
the bottom knife is a normal non long nail file golfer still a nice knife
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:36 pm
by knifeaholic
jaydar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:38 pm
The top knife is very nice and very hard to find ... it's a long nail file golfer from the 1950's ish
The Sakwiki does normally say that before the combo tool was introduced in in 1982 most knives had a small clip point blade instead (doesn't really effect the model)
It would be model 207k based on the 1942 catalog page 36 borrowed from sakwiki great looking catalog
https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_gal ... leryId=112
1300x980_36_1942-ELSENER-Catalog.jpeg
Congratulations on finding one in excellent condition
the bottom knife is a normal non long nail file golfer still a nice knife
Thanks so much!!
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:02 pm
by zed6309
Awesome, i was banging my head on this one
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:53 pm
by kootenay joe
Surely the 2 OP knives are more recent than 1942 ? When was this pattern D/C'd ?
kj
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:02 pm
by jaydar
kootenay joe wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:53 pm
Surely the 2 OP knives are more recent than 1942 ? When was this pattern D/C'd ?
kj
Well the first one is from the 40's up to about 1955 but it could be late 30's even
the second one could be 60's or 70's ... upto 1973 when the clip point small blade was retired
the long nail file on the backspring keeps going into the 80's but it was being phased out
golfers have been made up to 90's maybe later basically until victorinox stopped putting scissors on the 84mm frame
Hope that helps
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:20 pm
by kootenay joe
jaydar wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:02 pm
kootenay joe wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:53 pm
Surely the 2 OP knives are more recent than 1942 ? When was this pattern D/C'd ?
kj
Well the first one is from the 40's up to about 1955 but it could be late 30's even
the second one could be 60's or 70's ... upto 1973 when the clip point small blade was retired
the long nail file on the backspring keeps going into the 80's but it was being phased out
golfers have been made up to 90's maybe later basically until victorinox stopped putting scissors on the 84mm frame
Hope that helps
Thank you Jay. You really know the SAK's in some detail. You are a valuable asset to this forum.
The corkscrews on the 2 O.P. knives look to be made from 2 pieces of thick wire twisted together. Newer SAK corkscrews are made with 1 piece of twisted steel. Do you know approximately when the change in corkscrew construction occurred ?
kj
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:25 pm
by kootenay joe
I can see that the second O.P. knife is marked "Victorinox". I had thought that this name was first used in 1980's and that prior to this the marking was "Victoria".
Can you comment on this please ?
kj
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:13 pm
by jaydar
kootenay joe wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:25 pm
I can see that the second O.P. knife is marked "Victorinox". I had thought that this name was first used in 1980's and that prior to this the marking was "Victoria".
Can you comment on this please ?
kj
Well Victorinox as a tang stamp was used from 1923 when he added inox to the old Victoria brand
this is a great resource for tang stamps through the ages
https://elsinox.com/.cm4all/mediadb/.20 ... cture-2600
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:24 am
by kootenay joe
jaydar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:13 pm
kootenay joe wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:25 pm
I can see that the second O.P. knife is marked "Victorinox". I had thought that this name was first used in 1980's and that prior to this the marking was "Victoria".
Can you comment on this please ?
kj
Well Victorinox as a tang stamp was used from 1923 when he added inox to the old Victoria brand
this is a great resource for tang stamps through the ages
https://elsinox.com/.cm4all/mediadb/.20 ... cture-2600
I highly doubt the date of 1923 for the use of stainless steel for Victoria knife blades. Stainless steel was still being developed and the quality was not good enough for a knife blade. A few manufacturers used stainless for a few of their knives in late 1920's. It was not until the 1940's that the public began to accept stainless steel knife blades but the vast majority of knife blades were still made from non-stainless steel. After WW II there was a gradual increase in the proportion of knives being made with stainless blades.
The "inox" as in "Victorinox" marking dates back to early 1980's is what i have read in numerous online articles about SAK's.
Search 'History of Stainless Steel' and read up on it. most examples now
Also the red plastic handles on the 2 OP knives look like the modern SAK handles. The old SAK's had red "Fibrox" handles and it looks different and most surviving examples have handle cracks.
kj
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:02 am
by jaydar
kootenay joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:24 am
jaydar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:13 pm
kootenay joe wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:25 pm
I can see that the second O.P. knife is marked "Victorinox". I had thought that this name was first used in 1980's and that prior to this the marking was "Victoria".
Can you comment on this please ?
kj
Well Victorinox as a tang stamp was used from 1923 when he added inox to the old Victoria brand
this is a great resource for tang stamps through the ages
https://elsinox.com/.cm4all/mediadb/.20 ... cture-2600
I highly doubt the date of 1923 for the use of stainless steel for Victoria knife blades. Stainless steel was still being developed and the quality was not good enough for a knife blade. A few manufacturers used stainless for a few of their knives in late 1920's. It was not until the 1940's that the public began to accept stainless steel knife blades but the vast majority of knife blades were still made from non-stainless steel. After WW II there was a gradual increase in the proportion of knives being made with stainless blades.
The "inox" as in "Victorinox" marking dates back to early 1980's is what i have read in numerous online articles about SAK's.
Search 'History of Stainless Steel' and read up on it. most examples now
Also the red plastic handles on the 2 OP knives look like the modern SAK handles. The old SAK's had red "Fibrox" handles and it looks different and most surviving examples have handle cracks.
kj
Well Ok then
Stainless steel is still being developed but by the mid 20's it was pretty damn good both VIctorinox and Wenger had switched most of their officer knives to Stainless Steel (as had a large amount of Solingen and Sheffield pocket knife Production).
The Fibre scales were phazed out in the 30's and replaced with the red plastic / Celluloid scales the Fibre scales continued in the soldier knives until 1957 when wenger replaced it with Grillon(Plastic) scales.
Victorinox is definitely from the 1920's Have a read of the company history
https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Hi ... ms/history
Hope that helps
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:03 am
by knifeaholic
Thank you, Jaydar, for your detailed responses and info.
Re: Need help ID'ing a couple of older Victorinox
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:01 pm
by edge213
Just to add:
From "Victorinox Swiss Army Knives A Collector's Companion" by Derek Jackson.
Stainless steel was first used by Victorinox in 1923.
Also, looking at the trademarks page it appears "Victorinox" was first used in 1931. Although, "Victoria Inoxyd" goes back to 1923.
