Interesting knife

The W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Company has a very rich history that began in 1889 when William Russell (“W.R.”), Jean, John, and Andrew Case began fashioning their knives and selling them along a wagon trail in upstate New York. The company has produced countless treasures and it continues to do so as one of the most collected brands in the world.
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btrwtr
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Interesting knife

Post by btrwtr » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:13 pm

Here is a very unusual and interesting knife. Old original examples of this pattern are very hard to find XX or earlier stamps. It does look quite like a 6111 1/2 Case pattern but very unlike any actual 6111 1/2 pattern in XX or older stamps. As far as I know the real knives were never produced for sale with this type of bone or brass fittings. The bone color and jigging looks more in line with what I would expect to see on USA or later knives.

I would like to hear some opinions on the knife as far as value and authenticity. Factory prototype? Lunchbox knife? Cobbled fantasy?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Case-XX-r ... SwG4hffkiM
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OLDE CUTLER
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Re: Interesting knife

Post by OLDE CUTLER » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:16 am

Sure does look weird, the blade looks very short for the handle/frame. Could have had the blade tip broken, or replaced with a different one that was not correct for the knife.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by btrwtr » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:20 pm

I can't really tell about the blade lenght but it doesn't look short to me. Hard to tell since it doesn't have the blade in the well picture. Just looks like parts from different times and some parts from no other time. Interesting knife. Too pricey for me.
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Re: Interesting knife

Post by 1967redrider » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:10 pm

🤔 Not liking that jigging or the bolsters. Kinda looks like something Frosty had the Chinese make from Germany parts. Just my 2¢.
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by olderdogs1 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:37 pm

Frame is completely wrong as is the shield for the XX era. May be an authentic blade, can’t tell from the pictures. ::td::

Tom

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by btrwtr » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:44 pm

Thanks for the input Tom. I agree it looks like a mixture of parts from different times. Although the brass doesn't make any sense to me. I don't really like the term lunchbox knife beacuse it is often used in place of and to disguise the word counterfeit but it may apply here. Could be a knife that someone in the factory pieced together from parts or just someone's fantasy. Interesting knife but I have a hard time in putting a four figure value in the story.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by espn77 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:54 pm

I have a question. The seller says he has a letter from Tony Foster authenticating it. How can you authenticate a knife that was never produced for sale. If it a lunchbox knife it cant be authenticated because it was snuck out of the factory. I'm surprised Tony would do that.

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by edge213 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:16 pm

Although I could be completely wrong, I find all these stories about "lunchbox knives" a little hard to believe.
I seriously doubt that there were that many cutlery employees making up crazy knives to steal from the company.
How many employees would risk losing their job by stealing a pocket knife.
Im sure there was some theft, but surely not enough for all the one that seem to pop up.
David
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Re: Interesting knife

Post by btrwtr » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:41 pm

edge213 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:16 pm
Although I could be completely wrong, I find all these stories about "lunchbox knives" a little hard to believe.
I seriously doubt that there were that many cutlery employees making up crazy knives to steal from the company.
How many employees would risk losing their job by stealing a pocket knife.
Im sure there was some theft, but surely not enough for all the one that seem to pop up.
I agree. I see the term lunchbox knife most often to describe or excuse a counterfeit knife.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.

Wayne

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by Potechop » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:34 am

The seller has it listed like it has a pattern # stamped on back of the blade. I see none. I collected case knives for over 50 years and at one time had a very large collection of XX. I Never saw a XX that came close to looking like this knife. It looks like to me it’s a knife made with parts from other knives And some fabricated parts. But I found out there are some real case experts on this forum they know way more about case knives than I do. I would like to hear what they think about this knife .I just buy patterns and knives i know are real . Knives like that I stay away from. I never liked a knife that has been cleaned or worked on. I would rather have one with spots or some pitting but thats just me.i love reading the counterfeit watch . They been counterfeiting older case knives for as long as I been collecting and I am glad there a site collectors can look at and learn what to look for.

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by btrwtr » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:03 pm

Good points by all.

Keith I agree with what you say. I would think the best one could say is that the knife’s components and construction agree with Case factory knives and construction methods. In saying this it would not mean the knife is Case factory made. To say the knife is a prototype and was made in the Case factory would need more documentation of production or first hand documented knowledge of the knife actually being made by Case. At any rate I think it a stretch to say this is a Case factory made knife.
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Re: Interesting knife

Post by zp4ja » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:07 pm

Wow Wayne. Here I am freshly back from my forum hiatus and you are already riling me up. All joking aside, hope to chat via phone soon to catch up my friend.

The whole lunchbox knife stories are complete fabrication in my experience.

Anyone whom has not seen the knife in the following paragraph can easily find several posts in the forum with various opinions on it.

The self proclaimed Godfather of CASE gave me a similar song and dance story via phone on the infamous and ultra rare (because CASE never freaking made one) 1976' 5111-1/2L with the Cheetah etch. Won't rehash that in it's entirety but it involves a employee who ran over into the corner and dusted off the Cheetah etching machine on a Razors Edge swing guard with no etch, yada, yada, yada...
So that letter of authenticity on OP knife carries zero weight for me. All for the meager price of 3200 bucks on fake, conjured up Cheetah I just mentioned.
That said, personally think the OP knife is a train wreck! This knife rings a bell for me but cannot remember why at this point but it will come to me. Just my opinion...

I did however see a liner lock prototype of a spear blade XX 6111 once from a major CASE swing guard collector that I believe to be 100% authentic. Same guy I found one of my several blue scroll 77" 5111-1/2L. It does not have a serial number on it.

Take care all. Jerry
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Re: Interesting knife

Post by Hideaway Knives » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:14 pm

Very interesting knife indeed :D

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by 1967redrider » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:00 pm

1967redrider wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:10 pm
🤔 Not liking that jigging or the bolsters. Kinda looks like something Frosty had the Chinese make from Germany parts. Just my 2¢.

When I posted, I didn't even realize this was one of ol' Sporty's listings. ::facepalm:: ::barf:: ::barf:: ::barf::
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter

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Re: Interesting knife

Post by knifeaholic » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:02 pm

edge213 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:16 pm
Although I could be completely wrong, I find all these stories about "lunchbox knives" a little hard to believe.
I seriously doubt that there were that many cutlery employees making up crazy knives to steal from the company.
How many employees would risk losing their job by stealing a pocket knife.
Im sure there was some theft, but surely not enough for all the one that seem to pop up.
I'll post my thoughts on this particular knife later, but theft was indeed a big problem at Case, though I doubt that actual "lunch boxes" were involved.

See the attached internal memo from 1976...
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