What are the tools on this knife?

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helenu
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What are the tools on this knife?

Post by helenu » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:42 pm

Hi everyone - I have this lovely old item which appears to be tortoiseshell and has three blades as shown. Can anyone tell me what they are used for? Also it is nicely stamped for Cash and Sons London - Does anyone have any info on them or the age of it?
Many thanks as always.
Helen
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Gunsil
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Gunsil » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:21 pm

Not so much of a knife, but a folding medical or veterinarians surgical tool I believe. VERY COOL! Possibly a dental tool, I think mid 1800s.

I just looked at google and found a similar single tool with the hook and tortoise handle and it was called a dental tool but it was an ebay listing, don't know if the seller was correct.

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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by orvet » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:11 pm

It looks quite a bit like a capon knife, I believe is the polite term. A knife for castrating roosters.
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by knife7knut » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:04 pm

I'm going to side with Gene on this one;it is a medical tool and I believe used by dentists.I have seen one before but cannot remember where.Possibly in one of Levine's books.Found it! On page 257. The curved blade is a gum lancet and the hook is a tenaculum(whatever that may be).Probably pre-1870 as the tortoise shell handles would not hod up well in an autoclave.
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by orvet » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:08 pm

If that is what Ray says then it must be! Your collection is about as diverse as it gets! :lol:
If you don't have it or know about it is a good chance nobody else does either. LOL
Thanks for weighing in Ray!
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Doc B » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:31 pm

As a dentist...I'm going to vote it's not dental. The catalogue pictures definitely show instruments related to instruments in use today. The three configurations of the OP don't seem to something that would be very useful in the dental world. I would think veterinarian, or medical side. Some type of hoof pick / blood letting / castration? ::shrug::
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Gunsil » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:55 pm

Doc B wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:31 pm
As a dentist...I'm going to vote it's not dental. The catalogue pictures definitely show instruments related to instruments in use today. The three configurations of the OP don't seem to something that would be very useful in the dental world. I would think veterinarian, or medical side. Some type of hoof pick / blood letting / castration? ::shrug::
None of above. You'd have to go back 170 years, but it is a tool for use on humans, these are well documented. They are also small, could never be a hoof pick and looks nothing like a "rooster nutter" as Dale suggested. By the way Dale, thanks for the vote of confidence in my knowledge of mid 1800s cutlery. Dunno why you have to have Ray agree with me to accept my ID. Do you not have a copy of Levine's famous book? If not, you should get one, a wealth of knowledge awaits. I don't know much about post 1950 knives other than KA-BAR, don't care about modern folders at all, but have a fairly extensive knowledge of antique cutlery from before 1950.

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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Paladin » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:24 pm

Gunsil wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:55 pm

None of above. You'd have to go back 170 years, but it is a tool for use on humans, these are well documented. They are also small, could never be a hoof pick and looks nothing like a "rooster nutter" as Dale suggested. By the way Dale, thanks for the vote of confidence in my knowledge of mid 1800s cutlery. Dunno why you have to have Ray agree with me to accept my ID. Do you not have a copy of Levine's famous book? If not, you should get one, a wealth of knowledge awaits. I don't know much about post 1950 knives other than KA-BAR, don't care about modern folders at all, but have a fairly extensive knowledge of antique cutlery from before 1950.
Gunsil,
You know what,, you may be the smartest guy on the thread but you don't have to be so rude to folks here. If you are, in fact, knowledgeable, it will show in your posts.

Ray
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Doc B » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:14 pm

Gunsil wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:55 pm
Doc B wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:31 pm
As a dentist...I'm going to vote it's not dental. The catalogue pictures definitely show instruments related to instruments in use today. The three configurations of the OP don't seem to something that would be very useful in the dental world. I would think veterinarian, or medical side. Some type of hoof pick / blood letting / castration? ::shrug::
None of above. You'd have to go back 170 years, but it is a tool for use on humans, these are well documented. They are also small, could never be a hoof pick and looks nothing like a "rooster nutter" as Dale suggested. By the way Dale, thanks for the vote of confidence in my knowledge of mid 1800s cutlery. Dunno why you have to have Ray agree with me to accept my ID. Do you not have a copy of Levine's famous book? If not, you should get one, a wealth of knowledge awaits. I don't know much about post 1950 knives other than KA-BAR, don't care about modern folders at all, but have a fairly extensive knowledge of antique cutlery from before 1950.
Sorry..I thought I was kind of agreeing with you...that is was medical or veterinary. I was just throwing my (less than 2 cents worth)...that it didn't look dental. I'll be the first to tell you, I'm no expert on knives. I have had an interest in old dental equipment and instruments; however, I can not definitively say it's not dental. Just doesn't look like anything I've seen in the dental world, old or new. That's why I said it was my "vote" that it wasn't dental.
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Gunsil » Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 am

I only based my dental on Levine''s book and a couple of internet photos of similar folding tools in tortoise handles. Levine, cutlery expert that he is could still be wrong, there are some incorrect "facts" in his book, and we all know that everything you read on the internet is true, Abraham Lincoln said so. If your collection goes back to the mid 1800s you must know and I am glad to know also. I know a guy who deals in early medical tools and gadgets on occasion and I have seen what he looks for and the OP gadget is one of them. Love to see some pics of dental tools from your collection from the mid 1800s for an education!!

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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Doc B » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:10 am

Gunsil wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 am
I only based my dental on Levine''s book and a couple of internet photos of similar folding tools in tortoise handles. Levine, cutlery expert that he is could still be wrong, there are some incorrect "facts" in his book, and we all know that everything you read on the internet is true, Abraham Lincoln said so. If your collection goes back to the mid 1800s you must know and I am glad to know also. I know a guy who deals in early medical tools and gadgets on occasion and I have seen what he looks for and the OP gadget is one of them. Love to see some pics of dental tools from your collection from the mid 1800s for an education!!
Sorry again...but, I've had an interest in historical dentistry, over the years. I do not have any significant collection of dental instruments. I've found the history of dentistry to be fascinating and read a fair amount, on it's beginnings. There are a few dental "museums". Our dental school had a fairly good one. One of our Air Force training clinics had a small one as well. My only remark was that I could recognize the instruments, noted in the pictured catalog as being instruments being almost identical to instruments used today. I do not believe the catalog picture, is the same instrumentation as the OP knife. The shapes, of the working ends of the OP, knife did not appear to be anything that I could see related to dental today...or the instruments I've seen in the past. That was my only basis, to think it may be for medical or veterinary care.
I make no definitive conclusions about the actual use of the OP instrument and certainly am not questioning your expertise. ::handshake::
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helenu
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by helenu » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:58 am

Hi - I'm so sorry I didn't get any notifications that people had responded, so thanks very much indeed for your help. I am planning to sell it and have no idea what to describe it as! I also have no idea on value. Did we decide it wasn't dentistry? :D

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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Doc B » Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:17 am

helenu wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:58 am
Hi - I'm so sorry I didn't get any notifications that people had responded, so thanks very much indeed for your help. I am planning to sell it and have no idea what to describe it as! I also have no idea on value. Did we decide it wasn't dentistry? :D
I didn't definitively say it wasn't dental. "Medical" is an "all encompassing" term that would cover medical, dental & veterinary. Lines like..." Some have said medical, dental or veterinary" would not be erroneous. Again...my less-than-2 cents worth.
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Re: What are the tools on this knife?

Post by Gunsil » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:30 pm

Doc B wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:17 am
helenu wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:58 am
Hi - I'm so sorry I didn't get any notifications that people had responded, so thanks very much indeed for your help. I am planning to sell it and have no idea what to describe it as! I also have no idea on value. Did we decide it wasn't dentistry? :D
I didn't definitively say it wasn't dental. "Medical" is an "all encompassing" term that would cover medical, dental & veterinary. Lines like..." Some have said medical, dental or veterinary" would not be erroneous. Again...my less-than-2 cents worth.
Agreed, mid-1800s "medical instrument" would be a good selling description.

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