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Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:08 am
by Hillbilly70
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:06 am
by Steve Warden
Forgive my rant, but it really irks me when someone makes a statement like yours, then just walks away. While I've learned a lot, there are just so many patterns and variations I still don't know. And how about the folks new to collecting? I doubt it's obvious to them. A statement like that makes one feel like, "Wow. I must be pretty ignorant because I have no clue what is so obviously wrong with that knife."
Go ahead and make the statement, then please elaborate about the "obvious" to us clueless know-nots.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:22 am
by jlw257
Thank you, Hillbilly for pointing this counterfeit knife to us
First wrong with knife is the jigging on the handles. Case never made anything close to that
Second is the nail nick on the blades are way off from anything I’ve ever seen on a Case knife
Third the tang stamps are terribly wrong
Please before bidding on an old knife do your homework or ask anyone here about it
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:06 pm
by Mumbleypeg
One of the benefits of AAPK is the great examples of honest knives posted here. Whenever there is doubt concerning authenticity of a knife for sale somewhere, like on eBay or elsewhere, one can usually find comparable honest examples here on AAPK. That is why it is important to learn how to use the search capability here. Then use it to find and compare the knives.
If you’re like me, at first you may not see the differences. But after a while you begin to pick up on the details that tell the difference between a fake and the real deal. Different kinds of shields, jigging, bone colors differ across time. Blade shape, shape and location of nail nicks, all are things to look for. The last thing I would look at is the stamps - often they are inconclusive. Once you know what the ”tells” are, they can usually be detected by comparing knives with known good ones here on AAPK.
Eventually you reach the point that you know without comparing that the knife is fake. Having said all that, understand that sometimes it’s not possible to tell with absolute certainty. But the obvious ones like the OP knife can be readily eliminated. It’s nice to have someone point out the differences (and in no way am I saying they shouldn’t) but that’s a lot like peeking at another student’s test to get your answers. It’s unlikely you learned the answers yourself unless you have studied the subject. JMO
For posterity here’s the OP knife.
Ken
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:31 pm
by 1967redrider
Wow, another example of the infamous "Alligator" jigging.
Case used this on their garbage line of pocket knives.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:20 pm
by XX Case XX
Steve Warden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:06 am
Forgive my rant, but it really irks me when someone makes a statement like yours, then just walks away. While I've learned a lot, there are just so many patterns and variations I still don't know. And how about the folks new to collecting? I doubt it's obvious to them. A statement like that makes one feel like, "Wow. I must be pretty ignorant because I have no clue what is so obviously wrong with that knife."
I myself would also like to learn from you guys that have much more experience and knowledge than I do. Since joining this site, I've gotten pretty good at spotting the fake Case knives, but still need more information, especially on the other brands like Ka-Bar, Remington, Ulster, and Camillus.
So I too, just like Steve,
kindly ask that when you post about a counterfeit knife, share your knowledge so that we too can retain this valuable information.
___________
Mike
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:29 pm
by treefarmer
Great suggestions, help us all learn.
Treefarmer
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:40 pm
by Beavertail
1967redrider wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:31 pm
Wow, another example of the infamous "Alligator" jigging.
Case used this on their garbage line of pocket knives.
I've always called this Tennessee rattlesnake bone.
Most of these knives seem to come out of Tennessee.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:44 pm
by 1967redrider
Beavertail wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:40 pm
1967redrider wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:31 pm
Wow, another example of the infamous "Alligator" jigging.
Case used this on their garbage line of pocket knives.
I've always called this Tennessee rattlesnake bone.
Most of these knives seem to come out of Tennessee.
Must have made quite a few, usually I see this in the large toothpick/tickler pattern.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:36 pm
by Hillbilly70
Sorry for posting guys!! I saw it as across the room fake! I’m no expert at all I seek advise often !! I surly didn’t mean to ruin someone’s day for lack of details!
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:26 pm
by Dinadan
Hillbilly70 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:36 pm
Sorry for posting guys!! I saw it as across the room fake! I’m no expert at all I seek advise often !! I surly didn’t mean to ruin someone’s day for lack of details!
Actually I appreciate this thread. I always look at the posts in the
Counterfeit Watch section. But even though I have been hanging around here for a while, I do not claim to be able to spot a fake across the room, and possibly even if it were in my hand. I think that the point of some of the posts here is that some of us folks need a bit of guidance to figure out what is wrong with a knife.
I do think that a knowledgeable poster should be aware of the possibility that the majority of folks who read his post will
not be knowledgeable. To me, one of the most appealing aspects of this forum is way that folks who actually know stuff share their knowledge without condescension.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:53 pm
by Steve Warden
Dinadan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:26 pm
Hillbilly70 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:36 pm
Sorry for posting guys!! I saw it as across the room fake! I’m no expert at all I seek advise often !! I surly didn’t mean to ruin someone’s day for lack of details!
Actually I appreciate this thread. I always look at the posts in the
Counterfeit Watch section. But even though I have been hanging around here for a while, I do not claim to be able to spot a fake across the room, and possibly even if it were in my hand. I think that the point of some of the posts here is that some of us folks need a bit of guidance to figure out what is wrong with a knife.
I do think that a knowledgeable poster should be aware of the possibility that the majority of folks who read his post will
not be knowledgeable. To me, one of the most appealing aspects of this forum is way that folks who actually know stuff share their knowledge without condescension.
I'm with Mel in that I keep an eye here on the Counterfeit Watch. It's one source of education for me. But I need to know what I'm looking at and looking for. I'm not going to get that info if no one says anything.
To those who have freely shared your knowledge, I bow to you and thank you.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:10 am
by just bob
I've always called this Tennessee rattlesnake bone.
Most of these knives seem to come out of Tennessee.
I've always heard this referred to as Japanese jigging and there is a story behind that. Supposedly back in the 1980's a very well known name in knife importing was having scads of knives made in Japan and got to be really friendly with the executives there. He challenged them to come up with Case knife clones to see how good their knife making skills were. I don't know how many but a few knives in several different patterns were sent back to America. These were never intended to become available to the general public. It is thought they were given out to friends and other members of the knife community as a curiosity. Over time as these people have passed away these knives have shown up for sale. Now as then a serious collector would never buy one to be original, but the Internet has changed the nature of knife marketing and you no longer buy knives exclusively from reputable dealers. In fact most ebay sellers are very uninformed on knife authenticity. This should all be filed under knife lore and was a story I heard from a man that heard it from another man that had a second cousin that worked at the Case cutlery in the 1980's. You know how that goes.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:13 am
by rea1eye
Dinadan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:26 pm
Hillbilly70 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:36 pm
I do think that a knowledgeable poster should be aware of the possibility that the majority of folks who read his post will
not be knowledgeable. To me, one of the most appealing aspects of this forum is way that folks who actually know stuff share their knowledge without condescension.
[/quote
I totally agree. If it was any different, I would definitely use this site less. Part of the fun having the knowledge is to share it
in a fun way
Bob
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:38 am
by 1967redrider
just bob wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:10 am
I've always called this Tennessee rattlesnake bone.
Most of these knives seem to come out of Tennessee.
Thanks for the info, Bob, it does make sense and seems like something that could have happened. I know of whom you are referring to.
Those nail nicks are horrendous.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:44 am
by Case XX 6383
I live in greeneville TN and frequent this shop. I went by yesterday to tell them about the fakes and actually held these knives they were aware they were fake. they told me they could not end the bids since they had bids. I call bs but it's not my feedback
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:41 am
by herbva
Well, it looks like it sold for $173.60. Someone got a "great deal"!
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:54 pm
by btrwtr
The jigging on these fakes is unique in that the jigging rows and columns are concentric. You will not find Case knives with this type of jigging that forms straight lines of perpendicular rows and columns . The overly large nail nicks are also a common denominator of these import fakes. Patterns you will find from this same fake Case ilk are the congress pen, 80 pattern whittlers, toothpicks, copperheads and canoes as well as others. You will find these fakes in both XX and Tested stamps.
Look at the examples posted here and note that the jigging patterns will form perpendicular lines if drawn between the rows and columns. Roughly glazed finishes on blades can also be a common denominator. Also note that they all look new because they are new.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concentric
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:31 pm
by RalphAlsip
Here are some comparison pictures of blades and handles from a good Case XX 6488 and a bad Case XX 6488. The component in the top image in all of the attachments came from the same knife. Likewise, the component in the bottom image in all of the attachments came from the same knife.
Who can't determine which one is the good one and which one is the bad one?
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:36 pm
by kootenay joe
The last 2 posts above are a big help in spotting these fake Case knives. Thank you Wayne & 'Ralph'.
kj
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:07 pm
by 1967redrider
btrwtr wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:54 pm
The jigging on these fakes is unique in that the jigging rows and columns are concentric. You will not find Case knives with this type of jigging that forms straight lines of perpendicular rows and columns. . .
That's why I call it Alligator jigging, it reminds me of the pattern alligator skin has. Nice photo collection of these miscreant cobble-jobs.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:08 pm
by just bob
Like others have said I'm very appreciative of those that take the time to post great pictures and give us in depth information on the knives discussed in this forum.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:16 pm
by KLJ77
This has been one of the most informative threads on counterfeit knives I've seen...especially for Case knives. This is information I 'tweak' into the back of my mind, so that when I'm at estate sales, auction houses, flea markets, etc., I'll be more informed to make a good decision on whether to buy a particular knife or not. Thanks to all who provided a vast array of descriptions and things to look for.
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:48 am
by btrwtr
See this thread for more information on this type of counterfeit knife.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=64958&hilit=concentric&start=15
Re: Pretty obvious huh!!!!
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:03 am
by GSPTOPDOG
Hillbilly70 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:36 pm
Sorry for posting guys!! I saw it as across the room fake! I’m no expert at all I seek advise often !! I surly didn’t mean to ruin someone’s day for lack of details!
Thanks for the post, I am NOT very good at spotting the fakes, at least in photos. If I get a fake in my and I have a better chance to "feel the fakeness" of it. So thanks to you guys for putting the info out there.
I try and follow the discussion and learn a little bit.
