All About Pocket Knives

kootenay joe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:12 pm I cannot say for sure it is the first of the Western 49's but it looks to have been buffed. I have never seen one with a mirror finish before. We do have a member who is an expert on this knife. Hope he chimes in.
kj

HVAC wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:03 pm Thanks everyone for your response

Colonel26 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:51 pm

kootenay joe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:12 pm I cannot say for sure it is the first of the Western 49's but it looks to have been buffed. I have never seen one with a mirror finish before. We do have a member who is an expert on this knife. Hope he chimes in.
kj

HVAC wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:03 pm Thanks everyone for your response

As to their having a mirror finish, this one is brand new in the box, never sharpened or carried, along with the original box, papers, and sales recite dated Dec 19, 1967. I purposefully took the pic inside under the light. Notice the reflection. I cannot speak for the OP knife. But the originals were quite well polished. D3EC2E83-7D37-41F4-84B3-995E85C493A9.jpeg3B67083E-E3CB-4703-9590-4DDB1319943C.jpeg8252865E-BE4B-4E8A-97BB-A24B7700565B.jpeg9C04A162-8A67-4B19-9333-082BA46A717A.jpeg

zzyzzogeton wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:48 pm It's impossible for me to say what the 1st version had out the factory door as I have never encountered one IN PERSON. Every "Inverted Bowie" (IB) version, save 1, that I have/had/seen has either had a well-developed "use patina" or had that "rode hard and put up wet" appearance.

The lone shiny IB I have seen was an obvious polished up job. The stamps were really feathery looking. The owner insisted that it was a factory finish until I pulled out one that was well-used but had really clear, sharp stamps. He had always assumed that "shiny meant unused" and never paid attention to the condition of the stamps and what could be read from their condition.

It would appear that the OP knife has clear stamps, although I can't say for sure with my monitor and eyes. The overall condition of both knife and sheath would appear to be consistent with an unused/seldom used knife.

From my encounters with them, I could say that they were never sold with a box since I have never seen one. Obviously, that's a BS statement because naturally knives as large as the IBs with large sheaths came in boxes. I would love to see an original box from the IB era.

On another note, the Colonel's post pulls the dangler sheath introduction date into 1967. The 1968 catalog reprints indicate that the dangler sheath was "new for 1968". A knife sold on 19 Dec 1967 would have left the factory not later than November 67, and may have been sitting on the shelf for longer than that, depending on sales volume and stock rotation (did the clerks move older knives forward?) although knives don't spoil like food products.

Colonel -- could we get a picture of the backside of the sheath? That will show the rivet styles - solid or grommet style.

zzyzzogeton wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 am KW means Korean War. My post was intended to mean that the IB version (Inverted Bowie) was the first Bowie made by Western after WW2 and also after the Korean War.

Western's WW2 Bowie was the Bx54, it's authorized clone of the Collins No. 18 Pequeno Machete, improperly called the "V44", and was most likely the predecessor for the Bowie/W49.

I said/implied/hinted with the reference to post-WW2/KW that they were made after the KW ceasefire had been implemented. That's because I've seen a lot of folks say that the early "BOWIE" stamped bowies were Korean War vintage or 1950s vintage, which is bogus male bovine defecatory material.

Now when I say "BOWIE" here, I'm referring to the W49/brass S-guard knives. An argument could be made for the "Big 8", the L46-8, as being the first post-Wars (2 and KW) Bowie, since it is actually closer to the original Sandbar Fight Bowie than any of the later "wanna-bee" since it was first "re-introduced in the mid-1950s.

But that's a line of thought that needs it's own thread.

edge213 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:49 pm

zzyzzogeton wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 am KW means Korean War. My post was intended to mean that the IB version (Inverted Bowie) was the first Bowie made by Western after WW2 and also after the Korean War.

Western's WW2 Bowie was the Bx54, it's authorized clone of the Collins No. 18 Pequeno Machete, improperly called the "V44", and was most likely the predecessor for the Bowie/W49.

I said/implied/hinted with the reference to post-WW2/KW that they were made after the KW ceasefire had been implemented. That's because I've seen a lot of folks say that the early "BOWIE" stamped bowies were Korean War vintage or 1950s vintage, which is bogus male bovine defecatory material.

Now when I say "BOWIE" here, I'm referring to the W49/brass S-guard knives. An argument could be made for the "Big 8", the L46-8, as being the first post-Wars (2 and KW) Bowie, since it is actually closer to the original Sandbar Fight Bowie than any of the later "wanna-bee" since it was first "re-introduced in the mid-1950s.

But that's a line of thought that needs it's own thread.

What does "inverted Bowie" mean?

zzyzzogeton wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 10:26 pm

edge213 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:49 pm

zzyzzogeton wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:23 am KW means Korean War. My post was intended to mean that the IB version (Inverted Bowie) was the first Bowie made by Western after WW2 and also after the Korean War.

Western's WW2 Bowie was the Bx54, it's authorized clone of the Collins No. 18 Pequeno Machete, improperly called the "V44", and was most likely the predecessor for the Bowie/W49.

I said/implied/hinted with the reference to post-WW2/KW that they were made after the KW ceasefire had been implemented. That's because I've seen a lot of folks say that the early "BOWIE" stamped bowies were Korean War vintage or 1950s vintage, which is bogus male bovine defecatory material.

Now when I say "BOWIE" here, I'm referring to the W49/brass S-guard knives. An argument could be made for the "Big 8", the L46-8, as being the first post-Wars (2 and KW) Bowie, since it is actually closer to the original Sandbar Fight Bowie than any of the later "wanna-bee" since it was first "re-introduced in the mid-1950s.

But that's a line of thought that needs it's own thread.

What does "inverted Bowie" mean?

The word "BOWIE" is upside down compared to convention. By convention, I mean that the stamp is typically read with the knife in the right hand with the point pointing up. That puts the left side of the knife, the "mark" side, facing the observer. The term "mark side" comes from the convention of putting the "maker's mark" stamp on the left side ricasso so that a right handed person (vast majority of all users) can read the stamp when the knife is held.

The "pile side" is the other side, i.e., right side of the knife. A knife's right side is called the "pile side" because the "anvil" or "assembly support" used by cutlers to assemble folding knives is called a "pile" dso the "pile side" of a knife is the side sitting on the pile while being assembled.

While not used for the assembly of fixed blades, the side nomenclature extends to fixed blades in description.

If you go back to the first picture in the original post, you can see that the orientation of the word "BOWIE" on the pile side would be upside down if the knife were held with the point up.

The second version had all 3 stamp lines on the mark side and none of them were inverted.

Why was "BOWIE" inverted and on the pile side for the first iteration? No one knows - it is just another one of the many mysteries surrounding Western Knife mythology.