“There’s a sucker born every minute”

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Mumbleypeg
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“There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Mumbleypeg » Wed May 15, 2019 5:19 pm

Although the phrase “There’s a sucker born every minute” is most often associated with showman P. T. Barnum, there is no evidence he actually said it.

Which brings me to the current eBay listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/PROTOTYPE-PREM ... %7Ciid%3A1

Along that same line, “When faced with selling a low value knife, print up a Certificate of Authenticity to go with it” could be attributed to James F. Parker. :lol: A good story never hurt either. ::facepalm:: “Old factory inventory find”, “Factory Prototype”, “Limited run”, these sales techniques were all from the mind of master salesman James Parker.

I recently bought a nice Premier stockman exactly like this one for less than $20, including shipping from Canada. I’ll be interested to see what this “prototype” that has a supposed COA with it brings!

Ken
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Quick Steel
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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Quick Steel » Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Ken, Kindly educate me a bit. I have no COAs nor interest in them. But assuming that what is written on them is true I don't see where someone is being suckered. In this case the COA says it is a pre-production prototype made at the Olbertz factory. If any of the statements are false then clearly the COA is deceptive. But if accurate, then the COA just seems to add a bit of "formality" encouraging the purchase. Please do not let me remain a potential sucker. :)
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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by New_Windsor_NY » Wed May 15, 2019 5:40 pm

He has ALOT of "preproduction/prototype" knives listed.
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Mumbleypeg » Wed May 15, 2019 6:04 pm

To produce a COA all you need is a printer. Then if you think a COA matters, it comes down to the honesty (or lack thereof) of the seller.

In this case the seller is SMKW, home of many “factory warehouse finds”. Good salesmanship, flim-flam, or some of both? ::skeptic:: Either way IMHO it has very little to do with a knife’s value. Apparently to some collectors, it does. ::shrug:: If so, go for it. Personally I’m an advocate of “Buy the knife, not the story”. JMO

But as I said, I’m interested to see what the COA and the story add to the value of the knife. Although most of the Premiers are of good quality they just don’t bring much money even in excellent condition.

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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by OLDE CUTLER » Wed May 15, 2019 6:14 pm

New_Windsor_NY wrote:He has ALOT of "preproduction/prototype" knives listed.
Yes, he does. Makes you wonder doesn't it, anyone with a printer can make up certificates, and how would it ever be possible to verify that. He only has one negative review, and that one accuses him of selling fakes.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"

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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by kootenay joe » Wed May 15, 2019 6:24 pm

Being Canadian means that i saw Premier knives in hardware stores when i was younger. Not sure how long ago but i don't recall seeing them when i was of school age (1950's- early 1960's). And i bought a couple when i was in my 20's (about 1970). So i would like to buy this knife. Not because of any 'prototype' claim but because it is a good knife likely about 40 or more years old, and it reminds me of times past. Most of the German made Premiers i see on ebay have been used.
Rather than being a 'prototype' it likely is from an early run, maybe the first one that Olbertz did.
kj
Edit to add: i would not buy any of the Olbertz made knives with celluloid handles. I have owned many of them (Fight'n Rooster, Buck Creek, and others). They will off gas. Not 'maybe', they will.

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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by KnifeSlinger#81 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 pm

An "authentication certificate" from SMKW means little to nothing if you ask me.
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WANTED: Shapleigh Diamond Edge branded schrades and Schrade Cut Co cattle and stockman knives, in good condition.

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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by orvet » Wed May 15, 2019 7:07 pm

I am a proponent of "buy the knife not the story."

When Schrade closed and everything was auctioned off, a lot of the items were sold through Smoky Mountain Knife Works and through Blue Ridge knives. I believe there was some sort of connection between the owners at the time. Each purchase you made from Smokey or Blue Ridge and often times from eBay sellers who were selling items they had purchased from Smoky or Blue Ridge , you were given a COA that basically said you were buying one of the last remaining items made by Imperial Schrade Corporation, or something to that effect. They authenticated the item to be from the Schrade Factory in Ellenville New York. Oddly enough I received the same COA when buying some items from Smokey that had come from the Imperial Factory in Ireland!

The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house. ::facepalm::
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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by OLDE CUTLER » Wed May 15, 2019 8:10 pm

orvet wrote:I am a proponent of "buy the knife not the story."

When Schrade closed and everything was auctioned off, a lot of the items were sold through Smoky Mountain Knife Works and through Blue Ridge knives. I believe there was some sort of connection between the owners at the time. Each purchase you made from Smokey or Blue Ridge and often times from eBay sellers who were selling items they had purchased from Smoky or Blue Ridge , you were given a COA that basically said you were buying one of the last remaining items made by Imperial Schrade Corporation, or something to that effect. They authenticated the item to be from the Schrade Factory in Ellenville New York. Oddly enough I received the same COA when buying some items from Smokey that had come from the Imperial Factory in Ireland!

The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house. ::facepalm::
Post a picture of one of those COA's if you can, I have never seen one. Must be kind of like a deed to ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"

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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by knifeaholic » Wed May 15, 2019 9:07 pm

I just recently picked up the exact same knife off of Ebay. Nice little pattern, high quality, great blade combination.
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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by orvet » Wed May 15, 2019 9:41 pm

OLDE CUTLER wrote:
Post a picture of one of those COA's if you can, I have never seen one. Must be kind of like a deed to ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge.
I looked in the three or four plastic totes that I thought would be the most likely place for me to have left a COA, but I didn't find one in there. I must cleaned house better than I thought.
I thought I might have had a picture of one on my computer, but there's half a terabyte of knife stuff so since my search engine didn't find it for me you'll have to waste until I stumble across one somewhere, which I know.will. The big question is will I remember where to post it?

It's not as good as the entire COA, but there is one posted with the knife here on AAPK.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=50807&p=544230&hil ... oa#p544158

That's as good as I do with the moment. ::handshake::
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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Shearer » Wed May 15, 2019 9:44 pm

You could put this certificate with any knife made by Friedrich Oldbeertz.
To be a proper certificate it should have a serial number and description of the knife.
I have been through this a few years back.
These certificate were handed out like toilet paper and there is only on thing to do with them.
When Schrade closed there was certificate handed out for more knives than was purchased from the factory .
It sounded good "Knives purchased from Schrade factory closer collection"( get while they last ,very few left ) It was all to do with sales.

Grant

Edit : Dale posted just before me.
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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by RobesonsRme.com » Wed May 15, 2019 11:58 pm

Never, ever pay up for a COA of any kind re' pocketknives and never, ever pay up for a "prototype".

Jim Parker pretty much invented prototypes when he was selling the Case Classic series.

Even if prototypes were ever produced by any cutlery firm, why would they have made more than one or two?

It's all hype.

Charlie
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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by kennedy knives » Thu May 16, 2019 11:31 am

I have a little different view on COA's yes to a expert they don't mean much he can look at a knife and tell what steel it has and what year it was made , how many were made & what handle material it has . but not everyone is that expert so the info on the COA's are very helpful doesn't mean they should bring more money just good info & I hope you would buy what you like not a COA .

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Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by New_Windsor_NY » Fri May 17, 2019 4:23 pm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Queen-Cutlery- ... SwgOpczaOn

I'm not saying it is or it isn't. Just posting for discussion. ::shrug::
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Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
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