Information on a Schrade Walden knife

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DelNich.57
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Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby DelNich.57 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:13 pm

Anyone that can give this newbie any information on this nice little Schrade Walden I would be grateful. I'm not even sure if the pattern. It's a three blade under three inches long with hugged black Delrin handles and has the number 808 on it.
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tongueriver
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby tongueriver » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:36 pm

The 808 is the pattern (small stockman). Your example, if it has Delrin handles, was made from 1960/61 through mid 1973.
Cal Pruett is my name; trad knives is my game. Always interested pre-war Schrade CutCo knives & always have dozens others eclectic mix to trade/sell

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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby KnifeSlinger#81 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:40 pm

What tongueriver said is correct. It looks like this knife has "rough black" peachseed handles, so it should predate delrin handles by a little and appears to have pinned bolsters as opposed to swinden. It's probably older than 1960 and no older than 1947, but I really can't say for certain. I have quite a few of these little stockmans, I like them a lot. Does it have milled liners on the back?
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby kootenay joe » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:20 am

KnifeSlinger do you know when Schrade or Schrade-Walden began using the Swinden Key construction ?
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby Shearer » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:36 am

kootenay joe wrote:KnifeSlinger do you know when Schrade or Schrade-Walden began using the Swinden Key construction ?
kj

Try this site.

https://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us ... 977678.pdf
I think 1960 because the could be making them a under patent pending.
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby orvet » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:14 am

kootenay joe wrote:KnifeSlinger do you know when Schrade or Schrade-Walden began using the Swinden Key construction ?
kj


About 1960.
From memory, do don't bet the farm, but I believe the patent was granted in April 1961. The patent required a working model so it seems a safe assumption that the machinery would be functional in 1960.

Of course no company would operate the machine for months of production without selling the product it made, so 1960 is the probable timeframe.
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby orvet » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:16 am

::doh:: I just checked Grant's link and the patent was granted in April 1961.
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby kootenay joe » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:36 pm

Thank you Grant & Dale.
1960 is also when Schrade-Walden began using Delrin. This must have involved a lot of set up to be able to melt the Delrin and pour it into molds. I am assuming S-W made the Delrin handles rather than out-source them. With all of the patterns in both O.T. & U.H. lines, making all the handles was a big job.
Now add to this the switch to Swinden key construction which involved setting up new machinery and 1960 must have been the busiest most challenging year for Schrade-Walden.
kj

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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby orvet » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:12 pm

kootenay joe wrote:Now add to this the switch to Swinden key construction which involved setting up new machinery and 1960 must have been the busiest most challenging year for Schrade-Walden.
kj


I am sure it was very busy and very challenging, but I don't think all the changes were implemented simultaneously. Schrade often used what was referred to as “rolling changes.” The change was implemented gradually as old parts were used up. While most springs and blades from the non-Swinden models would interchange with the Swinden versions, the biggest difference in the parts would be the liners and bolsters. The Open Stock model numbers 832, 833 and 834 were all built on the same frame so the liners and bolsters for these three popular models as well is the later 834Y and the 34OT should all have been interchangeable.
I imagine the 3-5/16” frames for the 832, 833 & 834 were among the first models to be switched to Swinden construction because they such popular patterns.
Also popular were the 4” models 880, 881 and 881Y, which were also built on the same frame. Based on the popularity of those models, I think they were probably among some of the first models converted to the Swinden system. However I have no documentation to back this up. It is at best a logical guesstimation.

Schrade was the only company that ever used the Swinden system; they alone had the machinery that produced Swinden knives. It was unique to Schrade, designed by Dave Swinden and built in-house. They had already built or were building the Swinden production so it probably made more sense from a cost perspective to go ahead and construct the Delrin handle equipment so that it would be integrated into the new production method. It was probably far less expensive to design the entire system as a whole rather than designing the Swinden machinery to use old handle material and then upgrade it later to handle Delrin.
If you are sure enough of yourself to take make such a giant commitment to a design concept you might as well commit to a new handle concept as well, such as Delrin.

I think such a bold move speaks volumes about leadership and confidence of Albert Baer.
Not only is he investing in a new way of making knives and handles but he had just begun to introduce a line of knives which arguably became one of the most successful retail knife lines in history: the Old Timer line.
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby kootenay joe » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:31 pm

It is the "giant commitment" part that is so impressive. These changes were so comprehensive that if not successful they could have led to bankruptcy.
I think Case, Queen and other large USA knife companies were not making major changes so had an advantage over S-W during this time period.
I prefer a regular pivot over a Swinden key because blade play cannot be squeezed out with Swinden construction.
kj

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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby tongueriver » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:14 pm

Some great info here. I was never able to track down the exact implementation of Delrin by Schrade. Wikipedia says that DuPont built the factory in 1960. January? December? When did the first trainloads go out to the cutleries? This is still an unknown with me.
Cal Pruett is my name; trad knives is my game. Always interested pre-war Schrade CutCo knives & always have dozens others eclectic mix to trade/sell

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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby kootenay joe » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:45 am

In the Schrade forum at BF, Codger has posted the history of Delrin( ~ 2010 ?), beginning with Albert Baer approaching Dupont in mid 1950's and describing what he needed: able to melt and pour into molds, millable, stable, no shrinking, heat stable, good grip when wet, etc.
I think he says Dupont put about 5 million $ into developing Delrin. It became ready for trying out in 1960 with great success.
Codger's article contains many details and is a worthwhile read.
kj

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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby Landersknives » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:03 pm

KJ I was like you about the Swinden system and not being able to tighten blade play. I have figured out that if you cut the center pin and take the knife apart and clean it good, put the knife back together. Most of the time you can take the play out of the blade. At least that has been the case with me so far. It is a little more work than tightening up a pin through the bolster knife but I have been happy with my results. In fact I just recently took apart a Craftsman medium stockman that the main blade had plenty of wobble, put new scales on, and when I put it back together it tightened right up. I will post a couple pictures.
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby treefarmer » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:08 pm

That looks mighty fine to me, congratulations on a good job! ::handshake::
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Re: Information on a Schrade Walden knife

Postby espn77 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:40 pm

Those handles look great Ed.


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