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Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspective

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:42 pm
by LongBlade
I thought I would highlight this knife before adding it to the Horticultural Knife thread along with a few Hawkbill Pruners as there is quite an interesting tang stamp associated with it…. See below… Note – what I have written below is all related to the knife - some may be of interest and some may not in terms of the knife stamp of Meehan Phila but I do enjoy researching the possible provenance and significance of a knife when at all possible… (After spending a career in R&D and writing many scientific manuscripts related to significant novel findings in addition to my written fly tying articles all based on 1800s history and relevant fly patterns, I quite enjoyed writing this piece below :D …)

History: Saynor Cooke & Ridal (Sheffield) – 1868-Present as listed in BRL; 1877-Present as per Goins. The company originally started with Samuel Saynor in 1738 who later died in 1810 leaving the business to his son Samuel. Samuel continued the business as Saynor but his death in 1839 left the business to his son John who renamed the company Samuel Saynor & Son in 1845. Unfortunately John died only a few years later and ownership of the business was transferred accordingly to his wife Sarah Ann Cooke. After her subsequent marriage to William Cooke, the company became Saynor & Cooke in 1851. Only 37 employees were reported to have worked at the cutlery at that time. Following William’s death in the 1870s, Sarah Ann recruited a new partner, John Ridal, and in 1877 the company became Saynor Cooke & Ridal. Though the business started in the 1700s as a table, pen and pocket knife manufacturer, it was in the 1800s that the company became focused on making horticultural knives and in fact won many awards worldwide for their work (Paris, London, Melbourne and Calcutta). After the death of Sarah Ann and John in 1907, the company was transferred to other family members but remained at the same location. Saynor Cooke & Ridal was based at Paxton Works starting in 1891 under Stanley and Gladys Wightman who withdrew from the business in 1938 though the name of Saynor Cooke & Ridal and Paxton Works continued after WWII when Needham, Veall & Tyzack acquired the cutlery marks. Stamps associated with Saynor Cooke & Ridal include Bret, Obtain, Rainbow and Bicycle as well as the well-known Saynor mark. Also it is notable that Saynor Cooke & Ridal did stamp some of their knives with other company names that used or sold their knives, and that is indeed relevant to the history of this knife (historical synopsis from Tweedale 2014 edition).

Knife: 4 5/16” (probably 4 & 3/8” originally); Lambsfoot blade with fair amount of sharpening; “natural handles” ;-)); Integral spud pattern; fancy groved bolster (though I have seen a few Saynor Budding and Grafting knives with fancy bolsters, the great majority I have seen were without bolsters; while this is a lambsfoot others do exist with different blade types as well and one example on AAPK even has a 2 blade version with folding ivory spud); good snap and no wobble… Interestingly while I was looking in the liner of this knife I found a splinter of wood about 3/4” long which I now have in a small plastic envelope…. No doubt this knife was used as a horticultural tool!!

Tang Stamp: Blade stamp – Saynor; Front side (or mark side) tang stamp – Meehan Phila; Back side (or pile side) tang stamp – Saynor Cooke & Ridal…

Age of knife: Mid to Late 1800s based on Meehan stamp…

So here’s the interesting story or historical attributes of this knife… I was intrigued when I found the knife with the name Meehan Phila as a mark side tang stamp. Following some background research I found the following concerning Meehan Phila and why it is important… Thomas Meehan was probably one of the most notable botanists of all time in the USA and abroad in the mid to late 1800s! Note the initials on the mark side of the handle – “EM” – Edward Meehan was Thomas Meehan’s brother… indeed it is speculation that this knife belonged to Edward Meehan but an interesting thought as to the possible historic provenance and previous ownership of this knife. As this was a local knife find and Philadelphia is within a 200 mile distance it is plausible.

Thomas Meehan (1826-1901) worked originally as a Kew gardener in 1846–1848 in the UK before emigrating to the Germantown section of Philadelphia with three of his four brothers. Meehan started a nursery in 1854 in partnership with William Saunders in Germantown near Philadelphia, where he lived with his family for the rest of his life. When his business with Saunders ended, he started the Germantown Nurseries, which became Thomas Meehan & Sons in 1896. His brother Joseph Meehan (1840-1920) joined the firm in 1859. Thomas Meehan's three sons Thomas B. Meehan, Mendelson Meehan and J. Franklin Meehan also had notable careers while they ran the nursery. Of notable interest Thomas emigrated to the USA with 3 of his brothers – one of his brothers being Edward Meehan (note the EM initials in mark side scale of knife). Edward Meehan worked at his brother’s nursery as superintendent. The nursery was the first of its kind to specialize in North American trees and shrubs rather than European varieties and became one of the most significant and largest (75 acres) nurseries in the USA. Their specialty was ornamentals, such as Japanese maples. In 1888, Thomas Meehan rediscovered the Pink Dogwood along the banks of the Wissahickon Creek which was thought to be extinct – this area in Philadelphia is now part of Philadelphia’s municipal park system. Thomas Meehan’s research in botany led to his being the editor of The Gardener’s Monthly (1859–1888) and Meehans' Monthly (1891–1902), two horticultural journals with the largest circulation at that time. Meehan wrote his own agriculture columns for five newspapers and authored 'The Native Flowers and Ferns of the United States', consisting of four volumes describing and illustrating, in color, over 300 species.

After Meehan’s death in 1901 his sons continued the work of the firm. In 1916, the firm closed and the assets and business were divided between the three sons.

Meehan no doubt left his mark on botany and many of his plantings had an impact on the Philadelphia area over 100 years ago but still exist today. Bartram’s Garden which began in 1728 is the oldest surviving botanic garden in the United States and is located along the banks of the Schuykill River. Thomas Meehan started his career in the USA working at Bartram’s Garden in 1848, and years later he successfully launched a campaign to preserve the garden when the owner Andrew Eastwick, a railroad magnate of the 19th century died and the garden was slowly becoming a wilderness area. Bartram’s Garden is today part of the city of Philadelphia’s historic landmarks. The horticultural impact Thomas Meehan left on Philadelphia in terms of trees and shrubs is also still evident as seen in Fairmount Park and other areas of the Philadelphia Park system. There are still trees growing that were attributed to Thomas Meehan. Hunting Park in Northern Philadelphia has a number of historic trees associated with the Meehan nurseries and obviously his impact on supplying trees to Europe have also survived. He was indeed an important figure in botany and horticulture in the USA and throughout the world.

For those interested a link to a Meehan Nursery catalog of 1898-99 (but note there was not any horticultural knives listed for sale – only trees and shrubs) - https://archive.org/stream/CAT31283839#page/n1/mode/2up

A MS Thesis on Thomas Meehan at Uni of Delaware by Stephanie Ginsberg Oberle : - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf

Well this took me abit of time to put together but hope you enjoy it…

Photos of knife:
Front Closed DSCN4924B.jpg
Back Closed DSCN4912A.jpg
Blade Open DSCN4958B.jpg
Meehan Tang Stamp DSCN4963B.jpg
Saynor Cooke & Ridal Tang Stamp DSCN4978A.jpg
Saynor Blade Stamp DSCN4997B.jpg
Cheers
Lee

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:15 pm
by edgy46
Longblade
Thank you for your informative and well written article.

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:00 pm
by knife7knut
Great post! I have 3 Saynor knives that are all marked differently.apparently they did a lot of contract knives. The first one is a pruner with stag scales()my first stag knife)stamped,"Saynor" on the blade(as are all of my knives)and the tang stamped,"W.Drummond & Sons" and "obtain warranted" on the pile side.This knife is I believe a really early example as it features one piece liners/bolsters and the backspring is forged around the back instead of being blanked.
The second one is stamped "obtain warranted"on the pile side but unfortunately the mark side stamp is unreadable.It has a tapered back spring and no bolsters.The blade looks to be a spey pattern.
The last one is stamped,"Henderson Bros. Cutlery Co" on the mark side and "Saynor,Cooke,& Ridal" on the pile side.It also has a tapered back spring and threaded bolsters.The blade looks to have been a sheepfoot pattern.

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:34 am
by LongBlade
Thanks Bill and Ray!! Much appreciated!! ::tu::

Ray - thanks for posting those Saynor knives with other company names... in fact the last knife (Henderson) you posted looks indeed similar to the one I posted in terms of bolster and lambsfoot blade - at least to me the blades look more like a lambsfoot in contrast to the sharper downward angle on a sheepsfoot blade (but the 2 are so similar anyway)... Just a guess but I would think those knives with bolsters were on their upper tier in terms of price just based on their design - be cool to see an old Saynor catalog if any existed from that time period!!

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:40 am
by Mason
Very unique knife and great post!!!
In 1861, the "Gardeners Chronicle" gave a glowing review of garden cutlery from "Saynor & Cooke" stating that they were superior to all other knives which they had tested.
Enclosed is a cut sheet showing some similar models to yours and K7K's nice examples.

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:45 am
by LongBlade
Thanks Mason for posting that info!! Your post appeared just as I hit the submit button on my reply - and as I said it would be cool to see some old ads or catalog clips from Saynor - you must have been reading my mind :wink: ... I think in looking for background I may have seen a few others but didn't bookmark the links..

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:07 am
by FRJ
Very nicely written and informative post, Lee.

A very neat old knife.

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:23 pm
by smiling-knife
That was a very interesting post Lee. Very well researched. Thanks for the information.

Here's a few more Saynor knives.

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:36 pm
by LongBlade
Thanks smiling-knife - much appreciated!!

Beautiful Saynor knives you added as well ::tu:: ::tu:: .... One can easily see why they were so well known for their horticultural knives....

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:58 am
by wlf
Ray,that is most likely a Peter Henderson knife. He was called the father of American horticultural. He answered every letter written to him. In 45 years it was over 175,000,2/3 written in his own hand ; after work hours!!

http://www.sil.si.edu/SILPublications/s ... peter.html

Here is a Peter Henderson knife and a some Saynors:

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:03 am
by wlf
The other Saynor Farmers jacks:

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:24 am
by btrwtr
Very interesting and informative history. Thanks for sharing!

Wayne

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:03 pm
by wlf
Lee,great read. I expect it was vastly more entertaining to write than your norm :) ,even though the other was more financially rewarding. :)

I expect you know about this resource,but in case you don't, the Biodiversity Heritage Library ,containing natural history and botanical resources . There are old horticultural catalogs of about every company, some I have found containing pocket knives.

http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/

Here is a page from a 1924 Peter Henderson catalog(that I found in the BHL) that looks to show the Saynor Ray posted and my Peter Henderson rooster comb:

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:16 pm
by LongBlade
Thanks again guys!! This type of stuff is fun to write Lyle :wink: (and the same as writing about fly fishing - just good fun and interesting) ... totally different frame of mind from my career writing which in certain cases had a different type of enjoyment and satisfaction ::nod:: ... but financially fun articles are just that - mostly fun :lol: ....

Once again Lyle you have some real beautiful farmer's knives and only ones I have really seen from Saynor.. ::tu:: ::tu:: ... The Peter Henderson Ad is pretty cool - my knife looks most like the model X916 all the way to right (I think but can't quite see the bolsters - mine are grooved or threaded - similar ivory integral spud design though)...

Thanks for also posting that link for Biodiversity which I'm not sure I was aware of but already found some great stuff ::tu:: ... I looked at many Meehan Phila Nursery catalogs and did not see in one that they sold horticultural knives... so now I wonder if the stamp of Meehan Phila. was just made for them at the nursery for use or to sell??

Cheers!
Lee

Re: Saynor Cooke & Ridal-Meehan Phila-A Historical Perspecti

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:16 pm
by smiling-knife
Outstanding knives Lyle. It's always a pleasure to see your wonderful collection. Thanks for posting.