All About Pocket Knives

On ebay a guy has for sale what he says is a 6445R tested. I wish that I could show the pic, but no can do with my IPad. One of the things that really stands out is the "flat" as opposed to a "round" bail. It looks like a modern knife to me. Maybe somebody can help me out with a link or pic.
Randy

Is this it?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Case-Kn ... 4d0e57b6d8

I can help with the link but I have no input on the knife it's self

That would be it. Based on my limited knowledge. it might be authentic.

I can't play a piano but most times I know when ones outta tune and that looks outta tune.

http://m.ebay.com/search?cmd=SREF&kw=se ... ressonline

He has a lot of them.

Just curious what everyone sees that is suspect on the knife in question. is it a fake or a authentic knife that has been reworked? Not saying at tthis point it is either way. Have to look closer on my pc first. Not that I know all that much but when someone calls a knife a fake, my question that comes to mind first is "why".

Some of the responses are ambiguous so hard to tell if you are reffering to a rework, counterfeit or just buffed hard with a non factory bail.

Regards, Jerry

Knife looks right to me but has been heavily cleaned, I would have to study it some more though. Handles and frame look ok, I would ahve to look at the blades more closely. Case did use a flat bail like that on some 45R's.

Thanks Steve, hope lfe is well.

All,

Exactly my point I was trying to make. My initial read on the knife was OK but had to defer till I could look closer on my PC. The main thing I observed on my smart phone was that at that point until further review, the only thing the seller is guilty of is crappy photography. If you look at ALL the pictures, the handles appear to mismatched due to the fact that the seller had no flash on the mark side and a flash used on the pile side.
I am away from any reference material to refer to at the moment but if I recall correctly, the cap lifter/screwdriver blade would be hard to fake as it has the square cut out that some say was a roller skate key wrench or a gas light wrench or both, depending on whom is asked.
As for his/her other knives, I "glanced" at them also and some appear authentic at a glance but that is like glancing at a knife and presuming it is a fake. That is not "reading the knife" in it's entirety. Knife is definitely buffed and the main blade probably reprofiled to hide blade loss. The blade configuration is hard to read without my reference material as they may some diverse blade configs on the scouts as far as I recall, but hey, I am a CASE collector, not an expert and own one CASE 6445, so I may be off own my assessment.

No offense to anyone intended but the point is, I spent a good thirty minutes looking at the knife before this reply before I replied on the above observations, off base or not.

Not trying to sound like an ahole but I just think before a knife is deemed real deal, authentic but reworked, total fake or counterfeit, etc, some due diligence is required on the poster to due some research to "read the knife" in it's entirety.
My full knife read is up in the air now as I don't have reference material to refer to before Steve hopefully chimes in further. Looks good so far from what I see.

Either way fake, real or otherwise on the posted knife...

I had a member here question the authenticity of a rare example of one of my knives on the Advertisment section of this forum once. Not only was this inappropriate, it was totally incorrect. Not really bothered by this but it was out of line as the read of the knife was obviously brief and thus inaccurate and concentrated on one aspect of the knife ONLY and on the ad forum.

Point is be careful when casting a stone as if you are the one selling the knife on ebay, for instance, this could impact the money you recieve in your pocket for someone not praticing due diligence and doing their homework.

My 2 cents, like it, agree with it or not. Not better than anyone else here certainly. But in my case I stated above, when some knuckehead says a kinfe you have for sale is a fake (and it is in fact not) because they don't know any better or for whatever reason, and gives potenial buyer's doubt, you'll know what I mean.

Again, all coments on the posted knife above apply.

Jerry

Well, I started this link, and I did point out my limited knowledge. This was why it was not posted in the counterfeit section. I was not aware that some old Case knives had a "flat" bail. I also was not aware of the square hole on the opener blade. I learn something new every day by reading on this site. I will probably make a run at this knife in that it is interesting and thought provoking.

Randy

Randy,
the question was totally appropriate and well worded I have no problem with that.its obvious you took time to read the knife. no problem at all with your original post.probably should have just kept my mouth shut.additionally, everyone's free to post what they want. it is their opinion.my response was not directed towards you.it was more general response on commenting on the authenticity of a knife with out due diligence in my opinion.
Regards, Jerry

The square hole is for the presto lite gas knob on old car head lights and other similar items. That does date it to the early part of the 1900's but the buffing has ruined the readability of the knife's patina. I'd just about lay money on it being a contract knife made for Case. Something about those blade shapes and that jigging just twigs a nerve in the old hind brain.

Iron Hoarder wrote:The square hole is for the presto lite gas knob on old car head lights and other similar items. That does date it to the early part of the 1900's but the buffing has ruined the readability of the knife's patina. I'd just about lay money on it being a contract knife made for Case. Something about those blade shapes and that jigging just twigs a nerve in the old hind brain.

That was the only thing I had to add and Iron got there before me."Prestolite gas tool"

Great info IH and Knifetime!

I had always thought gas lamp tool as in not on a car. Not sure where I heard the skate key wrench but hey, back in those days some tools had many uses. Universal as we call it now but I could be wrong on the skate key. Not like today when companies machine their products where you need their own use speciality tool to do the same task as another product.

Anyway, Randy, one possibly important observation (in my mind and knife read) I forgot to mention last night in my rant. Again, no expert either here.
I own a few dozen or so pre TESTED knives like the one in question posted as far as era goes. As I said, only own 1 Scout knife as it is not my own personal favorite though I do like them.
On all the older CASED pre TESTED examples I have and have observed (again, don't mean much, no expert), the majority have all blades stamped. Possibly not the punch blade in the posted knife example. May not apply to the Scout pattern though. Maybe selective photography or an oversight. But only the one blade under discussion with the lamp tool has the stamp shown. Most of the pre TESTED knives I have seen have most if not all the blades with a tang stamp. Some of the early TESTED knives have multiple blade stamps also as you probably know. And contary to popular belief, some early TESTED knives have model stamps also though not often seen or observed. Maybe the other stamps took a heavy toll from buffing. I can say one thing on the pre TESTED stamps, hard to "read" at time in terms of authenticity. Some are deep, some faint, some off center and struck not dead on and straight, chipped stamp dyes used, letters hanging on or possibly off the edge of the tang, etc. Hand struck and not by a machine so even if stamp was not perfect, blade would be used and not discarded due to the frugality of the era/time.
I personally when reading a knife would be more suspect of a perfect stamp for that era knife than one that was not perfect based on alot of factors I will not bore anyone with. There was also a thread on this subject recently.

I would ask for addtional pics of the tangs if I were to pursue this knife. Maybe just my lone opinion though.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Jerry

Pretty much agree with previous comments, especially about the knife being buffed to death, a little sad actually.

With regard to the jigging, it appears to be old Rogers bone frequently used on the older Case knives, nothing out of the ordinary.

The most important comments in regards to determining authenticity, in my opinion, are the ones about checking the markings on ALL of the blades. As stated, most of the older Case knives (pre Tested) had some sort of marking on almost every blade and I would expect this knife to be marked the same, including, very likely, the pattern number.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S. forgot to add what I started this reply to comment on. The knife also has a nice raised letter shield typical of these older Case knives.

To me the handles match and look like early rogers.
I can see a 6445 stamped on the punch blade.
The blades just do not look old to me.
Thought I would add to the cornfusion.
Mark
ps. based on problems with some of his other knives that are listed, I would stay away from it. Just my opinion.