All About Pocket Knives

Totally new to Military knives and have purchased several now on Epay. A couple I got burned on and several are ok. My question involves a 1967 that I purchased and the handle is really worse then I had anticipated. There is a good 1/4 gap from either missing leather and the spacers between are rotting and pretty shabby and missing too. My intent is to initiate my own home theater repair and just replace all of the leather washers if I can find a supplier. Otherwise the knife blade is fine and is with minimal wear. Some may say "no dont touch it" but who is to say what previous owners did or did not do to the knife as I dont have a chain of custody to show how it was kept. I hope to keep the knife for a while and will pass on to my grandson (maybe) or sell it some day when SS runs out. Obviously I would disclose the newer handle as it would be telltale anyway.

I was trying to interpret one forum thread that talked about removing the pommel nut with a home made screw driver spanner but no pictures were ever put on or I missed them. To be honest in looking at the nut it looks like the head has been peened and I know a spanner wrench is not appropriate for this Camillus so I am not sure how to remove it yet.

I got burned on this Vietnam "era" banner that you see on sites now and two knives I bought had the new Camillus logo so my bad. My only regret is that I didnt google old military knives first and do some reading before I went ape on Epay and started bidding. I am reading more and learning a lot now.

I am going to the Fort Worth Gun show tomorrow and just walk around and look at knives (well some 45s too) and see if I can talk to some guys there and pick their brains.

My one regret is that my brother and I played with my Dads knives that he brought back from WWII and probably broke them. I know he had a KA-BAR and a Marble and a Jap sword. But that was in the early 50s and we were just little squirts. He never did talk much about the war anyway.
Thanks for taking time to read this and hopefully give me some clues.

FYI I soaked the handle in some leather conditioner that I use on my saddles that has leather oil etc in it. The old leather was starting to crumble when it was moved around and I needed all the help I could get to try and save the current one.

Mike

Please show a picture of the butt end, I don`t believe these should have a nut holding the pommel on.

They are usually peined on.

Welcome to AAPK. Glad to have you aboard. We have some very knowledgeable guys here, unfortunately I'm not one of them. There are several knife mechanics who frequent the site and one of them will be along eventually to give you a point in the right direction on your pilots knife. In the meantime you might want to browse the "Military Related Knives and Tools" forum -- http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... m.php?f=44
and the "Knife Related Tutorials" forum-- http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... m.php?f=38
and the "Knife Repair and Restoration" forum -- http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... m.php?f=37

Enjoy.

Here are two pictures as requested. I am new to knife terminology also so excuse any errors at this point. Will keep reading the other forums too. I see that I am calling the Pommel the "nut" as it looks like a big hex nut that you could screw off to get to the leather but I don't know if thats true so that is why I am asking. I havent seen any videos or take down videos on one of these yet.

thanks all

Mike

If you look at the end of the pommel--the "nut"--you can see a sort-of "smooshed" area where you'd expect a bolt to come through the nut. That is the tang of the knife. The handle was installed and the pommel pressed in place, and the tang was "upset" over the pommel, just like what happens when you peen a rivet. It won't unscrew, you'd have to grind away the end of the tang to release the pommel.

Looking at that handle, there isn't enough there to actually "restore." To return it to service, you'd need to entirely replace the handle. What most folks seem to do is to remove the remains of the original handle and install a replacement handle, often made of wood. I've done a couple of wood turned to look like the original handle, split for installation. Unfortunately, that is one of those jobs that is hard to explain unless you have spent some time on a lathe, and if you have it is obvious once someone suggests it.

You could entirely replace the handle without removing the pommel, at least in theory. Obtain the replacement leather washers, and then split the side of each, at an angle. Wrap them around the tang, and superglue the split closed. The last couple washers would need to be compressed a bit (I'd use a vise and a couple of pieces of cold-rolled, but suspect wood slabs would work). After installation, finish shaping the handle and apply some form of leather dressing or wax. That will swell the compressed washers, and make the handle tighter.

But that is theory--I've done repairs like that, but never an entire handle.

And welcome to AAPK!

Jim

I was afraid you were going to say that BUT that would be doable even if I were to just replace the few missing. Given the condition of the washers that are cracking and flaking away and very brittle before I softened them up it seems better to replace them all.

I think splitting new leather washers and then putting them on would look good when done. Have to be careful as the super glue would stop the leather from taking on a patina and there would be a visible line showing all the time.

Thanks for the input and I might just take some before and after pictures to put on one of the other sections as I dont see it done or havent found it yet.


Mike

If you are going to go that route, a few tips from past replacements of handle washers:

Before beginning, get each washer cut closer to the finished size (this lets you taper the handle at each end, and pre-cut the recesses where the handle diameter is smaller). Lay the washers out on a table, in order.

Work from each end in towards the middle, so the last ones you put on are in the middle. This is easier than fitting your last washers at the metal cross guard and pommel, and makes it easier to further camouflage the replacement.

Instead of cutting each washer at 90 degrees to the face of the washer, cut them at an angle. This increases the gluing surface. Stagger the joints, so you don't have a line of glue joints. It makes it easier to hide. When you glue the washers, do so individually as you install them, and use as little super glue as possible.

As mentioned earlier, compress some of the washers. When they expand in the finishing process, it will help take up any slack.

Once you have the handle on, burnish the washers with something hard and smooth--a piece of deer antler, or a wooden dowel work well. Really lean on the burnisher.

AFTER burnishing, do any final sanding and shaping. Again, this will help eliminate spaces. After sanding, burnish again.

You can use lightly-applied super glue as a finish on the leather. This will seal the leather, and help it last longer if you actually use the knife. Done right, the handle will look like it was finished and waxed or oiled, and it will have a decent "grip" in the hand.

If you aren't happy with the way it looks when finished, set it aside and come back to it later--if you still don't like it, well, you know how to remove and replace it! It would be nice to have a "practice" handle to work on, maybe get a junker to use for practice.

Good luck. Try not to glue the knife to your hand. . . . but then again, maybe that is just a problem for me!

Jim

i have a similar knife...an imitation of your knife...the handle and scabbard are the only good points...
if you wish to rebuild it...or make the attempt...the knife is yours for the postage.

THANKS so much Please let me know

my email is [email protected]


I can handle that


Mike

Jim,

I was thinking about putting the leather washers onto the correct tang width and then putting them into my dehydrator and letting them shrink like crazy. The tang should keep the hole correct and then I could cut as you had indicated. Hopefully some love and my leather oil would then let them expand and fill back up with saddle oil.

Just a thought for now as I am winging it but sounds good in theory.

Mike

Heat-shrunk leather doesn't expand like heat-shrunk wood does. It just sorta dries out. If you try the compression trick, you'll want to dry it out for maybe an hour in a dehydrator (to get rid of the moisture it has picked up from the air). I checked, it looks like the stuff I'm compressing is about 8 oz leather, compressed to about 6 oz in thickness. It swells back up to about 7 oz thickness. Really, it doesn't buy much working room, but often it is enough.

I think I really have to be careful and dont want to turn it into fruit leather that wont rehydrate. I will watch it closely and maybe just do the one or two last ones to get them to shrink in place.

I bought on EPay several sets of leather cut from the original dies of Camillus for the knives. At least thats what his ad said and he seems like a real nice and friendly guy. No one would ever know I suppose whether or not they are original replacements but makes me feel a bit better that I am trying to put some life back into it. Who ever had it before me really put some deep grooves into the sides grinding off something? The marks go all over the place in different directions. I tried some 320 to gently take them out but they are more courser then that. SO not sure what or how I want to handle it. The patina they put over it obscured it in the pictures. (again not blaming seller as he might have bought it that way himself?)

Still dealing with some pitted rust on the tang and want to get that all out. I do have some naval jelly that I could try but have been using my dremel and an abrasive buff to get it out. Just going slow and taking my time.

Appreciate everyones input
Mike