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Robeson Knife

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:51 am
by wheels
Hello to all, this is my first post here. I was helping clean out a garage and found this knife, so I searched the web for info and found charlies site, RobesonsRme.com. I e-mailed charlie and he kindly got back to me with the info I'm posting. I love knives and have used them all my life, but have never been a collector even though I have a few. So here's a few pics and charlies info. Sorry about the pic quality, I'll try to take some better pics. It's a very interesting knife.



Jim, you have found one of the rarest of all Robeson pocketknives. Granted, it is not in the greatest condition, the master blade is down about 30%, and there is some scattered rust pitting.

Let me explain the knife as I understand it. The pattern is referred to as a "carriage knife". The hooked blade served two purposes; the hook was for dislodging stones or such from a horses hoof. The square hole was a "Pres-To-Lite" key. Pres-To-Lite was a company that made fuel oil carriage lamps, and early glass cased storage batteries. The lamps they made burned fuel oil, had a self-contained storage tank, and were gravity fed. They had a stop-cock with a square post control and were supplied with a key, kind of like a skate key. There were several patterns of pocketknives at that time that had a Pres-To-Lite key made into one of the blades. One pattern were four bladed scout/utility knives, another were early "automobilists" knives. Your knife predates any automobilist knives. Knives with Pres-To-Lite keys were manufactured by several different manufacturers.

The punch or awl blade with the patent date was for harness repair. Robeson used this blade on several different patterns of knives. That blade was designed by a man named Cooper, a Robeson employee and is commonly referred to as a "Cooper Punch".

The short screwdriver looking blade was for opening carriage doors. Early high-end personal carriages had doors without handles on the outside. Only the groom or carriageman could open them. They had a slotted tumbler inset into the door that mated with the blade on the knife. It also doubled as a screwdriver for harness repair. Temporary repair of a broken harness could be accomplished with the punch or awl by making holes in the two pieces of a broken harness, then repaired with a nut and bolt, and tightened with the screwdriver.

The master blade was a standard spear shaped pocketknife blade. As I said, the blade on your knife is about 30% down from its original shape.

These knives came with bone handles like yours, and with black hard rubber appearing handles. The majority of these that I've seen were of the black handled variety. I've been collecting Robeson knives since 1988, I've only seen about six of these. The first one I saw was black handled. It was in essentially mint, unused, unsharpened condition. It was at a Knife Show in Springfield missouri in the early 1990's. From the time it was brought into the building, it changed hands three times, the last purchase price being $950.00. I never had a chance at it in the early stages. By the time I was even aware of it, it was already beyond my means.
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Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:59 pm
by philco
Hi Wheels ::welcome:: To AAPK

What an interesting old knife. ::nod:: Thanks for sharing it with us. I have one of the old scouts with the presto lite key blade that Charlie mentioned. Neat little slice of history in my opinion.

While I'm at it, ::tu:: to Charlie Noyes for sharing some of his vast knowledge with you and us.

Phil

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:36 pm
by Owd Wullie
Hi Jim, welcome to to AAPK.

Great find!

AND you couldn't have a asked a nicer gentleman for information on that brand of knife.

Thanks to both of you for sharing. ::tu::

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:14 am
by RobesonsRme.com
You could have knocked me over with a feather when this knife popped up in my E-mail in-box.
What a great find. I know it isn't mint, and that the master is down significantly, but I've only seen about a half-dozen of these, probably less, in all the time I've been collecting Robesons, and most of them had the hard rubber looking black composition handles. This pattern in bone is rare, indeed..

I'm happy to see Jim has joined AAPK. Welcome!! I think you're going to like it here. I think you possess all the predisposition characteristics necessary to becoming addicted to this drug we call "PocketKnives". Explore the Forums here, especially this one, and you're going to see some wonderful stuff.

Gee, I wonder if there's a Terrier out there like this? ::drool:: ::drool::

Charlie Noyes

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:03 pm
by Miller Bro's
Jim,

Welcome to AAPK. That is a very nice knife to start a collection off with ::tu::


Here is a similar Robeson Carriage knife.

Only problem is there are three things wrong with this knife.

Can you identify the three problems?

Look at the pictures carefully use Jim`s for comparison.

The Winner gets a prize! :lol:

M.B.

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:58 pm
by Sauconian
It's been rehandled with the wrong bone, with too many pins, and the blades were reinstalled on the wrong end of the knife. ::shrug::

Fran

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:02 am
by Miller Bro's
Fran,

Your on the right track! :D

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:30 am
by RobesonsRme.com
Based on just the photos, the handle material is not inconsistent with Robeson.

The handles are, however, on the wrong sides of the knife.

Plus, four handle pins instead of two, per side.

Is the shield pinned through the handles and the liner?

And, even if reoriented, the master spear would be in front of the driver blade, instead of behind, as on Jim's knife.

If reoriented, the hoof hook and harness blade would be correct, as on Jim's knife.

The spear's finish is not consistent with the patina on the other blades.

Jim (Wheels), that's how your master spear blade looked, originally.

Charlie Noyes

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:52 am
by Miller Bro's
Charlie,

You got two out of three, actually you are on to all three!

Take a closer look at pic number three, you noticed the finish difference on the spear blade.

Look a little closer and you will find the MAJOR problem with this knife. ::barf::

The handles are replaced, not the original material, too many pins, spun heads, and the counterfeiter forgot which side the shield went on! ::doh::


M.B.

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:17 am
by Owd Wullie
Brass pins vs steel?

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:09 am
by Aimus Moses
The blade in picture three has been welded at the tang and it's finish doesn't match, the handles are on the wrong side, the blades are not in their original order. ???

Aimus

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:07 pm
by knifeaholic
Here is one that I have...made by Robeson, marked Beaver Cutlery Co. I have no idea who Beaver Cutlery Co was.

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:04 pm
by RobesonsRme.com
Man! I totally missed that weld job on the master.

So, Jim, that's NOT how your master blade looked originally!

I guess the re-worker didn't take photos of the knife before he disassembled it. Hence, the re-arrangement of the blades, and reversal of the handles.

That Beaver is a great knife, and that's how the majority of these that I've seen look, except that one mint example at the Springfield NKCA show in the '90's.

Charlie N.

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:09 pm
by Miller Bro's
Aimus,

You are correct about the welded blade. The blades are in the right order, just the handle with the shield was put on the wrong side.

Steve,

I don`t know anything about Beaver Cutlery Co. :?


Charlie,

Looks like your the winner! You got the most right, and were on track with the master blade ::tu::

M.B.

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:01 pm
by Sauconian
MILLER BRO`S wrote:Aimus,

The blades are in the right order, just the handle with the shield was put on the wrong side.
Uhhhhh......I must be looking at the photos wrong. As I see it, if you just put the handle with the shield on the other side, the master and the pick would be on the mark side of the knife, and it should be the pick and the screw driver, with the master in back with the punch. The blades were paired incorrectly.

Fran

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:32 pm
by upnorth
I think Fran is right!!

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:06 am
by RobesonsRme.com
Fran is right.
The hook and punch should be to the left, with the hook in front. The spear and driver should be to the right, but the driver should be in front.

Charlie Noyes

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:34 am
by Sauconian
Charlie N., You saw that too, the first time around.

BTW M.B., Is the 'new' master stainless ?

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:56 am
by Miller Bro's
Fran,

It was carbon, but obviously from a much newer vintage than the original tang steel.

It could have even been from a Chinese knife ::doh:: ::barf::

I owned the knife for less than a day before it was sent back to the seller.

Too bad someone ruined a rare old knife ::td:: :x

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:49 am
by RobesonsRme.com
MB sent me a sweet little green onyx celluloid handled Robeson serpentine pen as the prize for his little contest.
I actually tried to be humble and all, and decline the prize as I felt I had an unfair advantage.
Then, he told me the prize was a Robeson knife. Well, I ain't that humble. :) :roll:
Thanks,MB.
Charlie Noyes

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:49 am
by Miller Bro's
RobesonsRme.com wrote:Thanks,MB.
:D Your Welcome!



It found a good home ::tu:: ::nod::





M.B.

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:24 pm
by orvet
John Goins is the only writer I have that has anything on Beaver Cut Co.

Here is a quote of what little he has on it:

"BEAVER CUTLERY CO. USA g 1920-1930"

I am not sure what the 'g' stands for.

Dale

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:36 pm
by RobesonsRme.com
Goins explains the "g" in the front of the book. I think it's in the preface.
I have forgotten the exact meaning, but it's something like "general" or "guesstimate" or some such that indicates the dates are not firm and/or are not backed up by any documentation.

Charlie Noyes

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:33 pm
by RobesonsRme.com
Here's another, for sale on Ebay. A little rough.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

Not my knife, not my auction and I'm not bidding.

Charlie Noyes

Re: Robeson Knife

Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:56 pm
by Miller Bro's
Here is an interesting old Robeson knife, at least to me.

I have seen hundreds of this type knife with the one piece handle folded over. I don`t recall seeing a Robeson among them.

It hides the backspring and makes for a nice little knife in your pocket.

The stamp appears to be pre 1940. It has plenty of wear on the blades, but the advertising is interesting.

Maybe Charlie can fill us in on the details on this one.

:)