All About Pocket Knives

Thanks James, very interesting reading!!!

You bet Bill. Glad to here it

A lot of good information posted recently, thank you all.

I only have 2 Winchesters in the collection, not an easy knife to find in good condition, this one is a nice bone dogleg without dash marks next to trademark and while both blades marked Winchester the pen uses a different font. If I'm reading the thread correctly this is possibly an earlier made knife.

John, Nice one

Harold

That’s a great knife John. Thanks for posting it

That's a beautiful knife, John

Great info James .... for me seeing the ephemera and the historical perspective is just as good as seeing any knife in my opinion!! Thanks for taking the time to share and post it!!!

I had heard Eagle was no doubt into mass fast production of knives - I have an Eagle Co Boys knife as an example but don’t have photos (good example of stamp but blade has no snap .... the history though in general as you allude to is quite convoluted for Winchester - between Napanoch, Eagle, Walden than merger with Simmons etc (connection with Keen Kutter) - In a way an interesting area for one to focus a collection just given connections and a collection of knives from those makers would be cool - all those company knives plus Honk Falls which was started by disgruntled old Napanoch employees at Winchester after 2 years in New Haven ...

Awesome Winchester Jack John ... as I read those marked on both blades were higher end but the font on your secondary is interesting to me - differs than that on my bone jack secondary pen - and again not sure when that font was used ...

This thread has been quite enlightening - great discussion on a company that we haven’t discussed much on AAPK

JohnR wrote:A lot of good information posted recently, thank you all.

I only have 2 Winchesters in the collection, not an easy knife to find in good condition, this one is a nice bone dogleg without dash marks next to trademark and while both blades marked Winchester the pen uses a different font. If I'm reading the thread correctly this is possibly an earlier made knife.

Beautiful knife JohnR!!!

LongBlade wrote:Great info James .... for me seeing the ephemera and the historical perspective is just as good as seeing any knife in my opinion!! Thanks for taking the time to share and post it!!!

I had heard Eagle was no doubt into mass fast production of knives - I have an Eagle Co Boys knife as an example but don’t have photos (good example of stamp but blade has no snap .... the history though in general as you allude to is quite convoluted for Winchester - between Napanoch, Eagle, Walden than merger with Simmons etc (connection with Keen Kutter) - In a way an interesting area for one to focus a collection just given connections and a collection of knives from those makers would be cool - all those company knives plus Honk Falls which was started by disgruntled old Napanoch employees at Winchester after 2 years in New Haven ...

Awesome Winchester Jack John ... as I read those marked on both blades were higher end but the font on your secondary is interesting to me - differs than that on my bone jack secondary pen - and again not sure when that font was used ...

This thread has been quite enlightening - great discussion on a company that we haven’t discussed much on AAPK

Lee, I was pretty lucky to find that info. It is a small piece of the research I have been collecting for a collectors guide to Honk Falls Knives that I have been working on for sometime now. As you know there is very little information on this company so all the info has to be collected the old fashion way. I’ve made several trips to Napanoch and Walden visiting museums and libraries and also meeting wile historians and life long residents. Winchester and the associated companies are all studies unto themselves. Add to that the history of the Hudson River valley and edged cutting tool in general and you could fill libraries with the information. Honk Falls Knife had its roots in the industrial revolution. The D&H Canal, electrical power, advances in steel, tariffs, WW1 and the Great Depression all had an influence on these knife companies and how the story played out. It really is a fascinating study if your interested in these sort of things. So far I have been able to photograph 45 different patterns and variations of Honk Falls Knives and two tool kits and as someone posted earlier the knives tell the story. Seeing them and comparing them to Winchester, Keen Kutter, and thier Napanoch predecessors, along with a little background information a clearer picture emerges on this little know yet significant part of cutlery history.
Jay

JAMESC41001 wrote:

LongBlade wrote:Great info James .... for me seeing the ephemera and the historical perspective is just as good as seeing any knife in my opinion!! Thanks for taking the time to share and post it!!!

I had heard Eagle was no doubt into mass fast production of knives - I have an Eagle Co Boys knife as an example but don’t have photos (good example of stamp but blade has no snap .... the history though in general as you allude to is quite convoluted for Winchester - between Napanoch, Eagle, Walden than merger with Simmons etc (connection with Keen Kutter) - In a way an interesting area for one to focus a collection just given connections and a collection of knives from those makers would be cool - all those company knives plus Honk Falls which was started by disgruntled old Napanoch employees at Winchester after 2 years in New Haven ...

Awesome Winchester Jack John ... as I read those marked on both blades were higher end but the font on your secondary is interesting to me - differs than that on my bone jack secondary pen - and again not sure when that font was used ...

This thread has been quite enlightening - great discussion on a company that we haven’t discussed much on AAPK

Lee, I was pretty lucky to find that info. It is a small piece of the research I have been collecting for a collectors guide to Honk Falls Knives that I have been working on for sometime now. As you know there is very little information on this company so all the info has to be collected the old fashion way. I’ve made several trips to Napanoch and Walden visiting museums and libraries and also meeting wile historians and life long residents. Winchester and the associated companies are all studies unto themselves. Add to that the history of the Hudson River valley and edged cutting tool in general and you could fill libraries with the information. Honk Falls Knife had its roots in the industrial revolution. The D&H Canal, electrical power, advances in steel, tariffs, WW1 and the Great Depression all had an influence on these knife companies and how the story played out. It really is a fascinating study if your interested in these sort of things. So far I have been able to photograph 45 different patterns and variations of Honk Falls Knives and two tool kits and as someone posted earlier the knives tell the story. Seeing them and comparing them to Winchester, Keen Kutter, and thier Napanoch predecessors, along with a little background information a clearer picture emerges on this little know yet significant part of cutlery history.
Jay

That is some great research Jay ... I love doing that myself - it can take lots of time - a labor of love as they say - but the end result after lots of digging can be quite rewarding!!! Lots of history there as you note and many connections - the sorting when the pieces come together I also find to be quite enjoyable - Best of luck finishing the collectors guide on Honk Falls Look forward to seeing it someday - its nice to see folks like yourself providing more background & clarity on significant aspects of cutlery history that will become a useful resource for many!!

Thank you Lee. I appreciate that. If you are interested just PM your info. I’ll send you out one when they are ready.
Jay

Thank you all for the comments on the dogleg, it is one of my favorite knives in the collection.

Here is the other Winchester I have, also without the dash marks, not in great shape but a very unusual pruner. Pattern 1633, I have heard it described as a ladies or childs gardening knife, small at 3 3/8". Last pic shows it next to a normal size and a large vintage pruner.

One other knife I have is a Wards which I understand was made by Winchester, the shield and bone fits for sure, if you all decide it is not Winchester I will remove the post so as not to take the thread off topic.

Both the Wards and the Pruner are very nice JohnR. Original Winchesters are sure hard to find. I know I will always keep an eye out for them.

Thanks Jay - PM inbound ..

JohnR wrote:Thank you all for the comments on the dogleg, it is one of my favorite knives in the collection.

Here is the other Winchester I have, also without the dash marks, not in great shape but a very unusual pruner. Pattern 1633, I have heard it described as a ladies or childs gardening knife, small at 3 3/8". Last pic shows it next to a normal size and a large vintage pruner.

Those are awesome hawkbills John - from another hawkbill lover those are sweet - and especially have an affinity for that small one .. given I also very much like Boys Knives as you may know ...

JohnR wrote:One other knife I have is a Wards which I understand was made by Winchester, the shield and bone fits for sure, if you all decide it is not Winchester I will remove the post so as not to take the thread off topic.

Interesting and no doubt nice Wards knife John .. I would leave it for discussion purposes and glad you posted it - as you noted it "may" have been Winchester but not clear as Levines notes "maybe made by Winchester" but states many made for Montgomery Wards were no doubt Utica made...

Now something I have noted before in other threads about Winchester long ago but has dawned on me this morn was that I find that Winchester seemed to put their nail nicks more forward on the blades toward the tip - more so than other makers (I see this on some Remingtons as well if I remember right but not sure - but no doubt on many Winchesters)... I can't see the smaller blades on the Wards to see - but perhaps my notion or perception that Winchester put the nail nicks more forward is just that - my perception - it is no doubt evident on the Winchester Bone Jack I posted earlier in this thread but not so much on the Jr Stock Whittler - which perhaps points to the interesting discussion here on this thread regarding involvement of different cutleries in making the Winchester knives - so were nail nicks put more forward on blades evident on other knives from the cutleries mentioned in Winchester history is the question - and of course as I said I may be wrong and only a perception on my part...

JohnR wrote:One other knife I have is a Wards which I understand was made by Winchester, the shield and bone fits for sure, if you all decide it is not Winchester I will remove the post so as not to take the thread off topic.

Definitely Winchester made.

JMO

JMO - Don’t doubt you for a second but what is the evidence or aspect of knife which says Winchester?? Just curious again for my own edification

Thanks - Lee

JohnR wrote:One other knife I have is a Wards which I understand was made by Winchester, the shield and bone fits for sure, if you all decide it is not Winchester I will remove the post so as not to take the thread off topic.

John are you able to read what the etch on the main says? Hard to tell from the pics. Just curious. Thanks. P.S great knife.
Jay

JAMESC41001 wrote:

JohnR wrote:One other knife I have is a Wards which I understand was made by Winchester, the shield and bone fits for sure, if you all decide it is not Winchester I will remove the post so as not to take the thread off topic.

John are you able to read what the etch on the main says? Hard to tell from the pics. Just curious. Thanks. P.S great knife.
Jay

Thanks guys, Jay it reads Master Quality.

Winchester used Napanoch’s patented punch on some of there knives. The punches they used maintained the same markings with date of patent found on the Naps. I’ve seen several Honk Falls patterns with punches and have not found any with this style punch Pictures printed from glass plate negatives showing the inside of the Napanoch factory were included in Rhett Stidams Napanoch book. Not all the available pics made it into his book. This one shows the punches being ground in the factory around 1916 In 1931 Winchester went into receivership and was purchased at bankruptcy auction by Western cartridge Co that same year. Also that same year John Cushner had started making knives again under the Napanoch name in a converted barn behind his house. It seems Winchester usedwhat remaining inventory was left of these punches and switched to a more traditional style. These knives have a distinctive jigged bone and may be a way of spotting early examples but I’m not sure. In the patent papers The design of the punch is said to help to keep leather from clogging up in the punch and also to help with strength.

LongBlade wrote:JMO - Don’t doubt you for a second but what is the evidence or aspect of knife which says Winchester?? Just curious again for my own edification

Thanks - Lee

Just about everything but the first thing I notice is the shield, most Winchester's (and many KK's) have the exact same shield. Second is the spey blade, absolutely typical of Walden/Wichester/KK. Finally, the bone is Roger's which Winchester used, of course, many others used that bone as well.

By the way JMO is "Just my opinion", my name is Mark Steele (msteele6)

Thanks for the info Mark (and sorry about the JMO - )...

I picked up a very cool Winchester catalog recently, hoping to find some answers. Instead just added a few more questions. Should of seen that coming I guess. Inside was a knife that I had seen recently for the first time. This is a unique pattern in that it is a lock back with fancy threaded bolsters. The Swede on the blade looks a lot like a Napanoch though I have not seen a Napanoch like this. It’s not shown in Rhett Stidams Nap catalog. I did photograph a Honk Falls almost exactly like this. My question is has anyone seen this pattern made by anyone before? Any help would be much appreciated.
Jay

Hi Jay, I have a knife like that.
It is stamped "Wilbert". I have no idea who made it. It sure is a nice knife.

FRJ wrote:Hi Jay, I have a knife like that.
It is stamped "Wilbert". I have no idea who made it. It sure is a nice knife.

Very nice my friend!!