All About Pocket Knives

jmh58 wrote:Cant use a semi in Pa.. Bolt or pump or single shot.. These are long guns.. You can use a revolver or single shot handgun.. Center fire only.. No rim fires..John

John you for forgot these old boys, this one in thuty thuty

jerryd6818 wrote:Does anyone here deer hunt with a .223?

As a rule I don't but, I did get a deer on Kodiak Island with a .222Rem
It was just before dark on December 31, 1992. I was hunting with a friend, Margarito Vargas Delgato.
After a 2 mile drag back to to my truck, we headed back to town, got cleaned up, and partied all night!
It would be nice to be young again.

jerryd6818 wrote:Does anyone here deer hunt with a .223?

Buddy of mine owns a couple CZ mini-Mausers chambered in 223 REM, but he doesn't hunt. A year back he asked me to kill a deer with one to see what I thought; I neck shot a smallish doe (70 lbs.) at 50 yards, dropped her like a rock. It is an effective but minimal round. However, as a hunter I want more cartridge for distance and lethality in the margins (my normal deer cartridges are the 270 WIN and 308 WIN). OH

steve99f wrote:

jmh58 wrote:Cant use a semi in Pa.. Bolt or pump or single shot.. These are long guns.. You can use a revolver or single shot handgun.. Center fire only.. No rim fires..John

John you for forgot these old boys, this one in thuty thuty

Thanks Steve.. Totally forgot levers.. And I had a few too!! John

jmh58 wrote:

steve99f wrote:

jmh58 wrote:Cant use a semi in Pa.. Bolt or pump or single shot.. These are long guns.. You can use a revolver or single shot handgun.. Center fire only.. No rim fires..John

John you for forgot these old boys, this one in thuty thuty

Thanks Steve.. Totally forgot levers.. And I had a few too!! John

This got me to thinking (sometimes tough to get the brain cells fired up). Other than a Garand that I love, I no longer have any semi-auto long guns. Why are they all gone? It's not something I did consciously - I didn't say to myself "I think I'll get rid of all my semi-automatics." It just happened. But looking back on it now, I think I just didn't enjoy shooting them as much as I do others.

I know the general wisdom is that bolt actions are the most accurate and I'm not gonna argue that point - I have a couple that are very accurate. However for the kinds of shooting I do, the type of action isn't an accuracy factor. In fact they're all better than my own shooting ability. If I miss, it's not the gun.

Long way of getting to the point. Eliminating semi-automatics (evidence is I apparently don't like them), in shotguns I prefer pumps and doubles. In rifles it's pumps, levers, and bolts in that order.

What's your own preference? Is there a reason?

Ken

jerryd6818 wrote:Does anyone here deer hunt with a .223?

Jerry, most of my buddies in Texas hunt hogs with an AR in .223.

The new Sig pistol being adopted by the military has hit a snag. In testing, the pistol proved high reliability when firing the hollow points which will be the "go to war" ammunition. However it must also be reliable with the standard 9mm. ball. With this ammo it achieves only a 61% reliability. The ammo frequently double ejects, i.e. ejects both a fired case with an unfired round.

Ken

In centerfire rifles I prefer levers, a pump if I had one, bolts. Rimfire are be pumps and then bolts. Only own 1 shotgun an Ithaca M-37 fwt in 20 gauge that isn't going anywhere. One of these days I'll find a Remington 141 in 35 Rem.

PA is getting around to allowing semi auto rifles after decades of not allowing them for hunting, rimfires or centerfires. Not sure of the status yet. Don't matter to me. Aside from an SKS, the only other semi-auto long arm I have is a Winchester Model 1903 and that is just for fun.

steve99f wrote:

jmh58 wrote:Cant use a semi in Pa.. Bolt or pump or single shot.. These are long guns.. You can use a revolver or single shot handgun.. Center fire only.. No rim fires..John

John you for forgot these old boys, this one in thuty thuty

NOW thats a 30-30- I hunt with a 99 in a 300 Savage

Unk wrote:

jerryd6818 wrote:Does anyone here deer hunt with a .223?

Jerry, most of my buddies in Texas hunt hogs with an AR in .223.

My hog (and coyote) rifle is a .223. Picture was taken when it was new - I was sighting in the scope.

Ken

I believe the idea with the 5.56 is to take a enemy combatant out of the fight, not necessarily kill outright.
A hit pretty much anywhere on your body from a 5.56 at anything less than 300 meters is going to take not only you out of the fight, but one or two others to get you to safety.

Now there are 3 current questions, .223 for deer? and what action and why?

I can remember when lots of the gun writers from days gone by used to write volumes on the inadequacy of the .243 as a deer cartridge. I have a couple of acquaintances who deer hunt with a .223, one uses a Mini-14 Ruger the other an old Remington 600. They have no problems. I grew up around a bunch of old boys that deer hunted with the .22 Magnum, most used the Winchester 61 back then (illegal, yes but very effective for the type of hunting they were doing). I don't know if Jerry's question was pointed toward the .223 being adequate or just the .223 being popular because of its' military popularity. When I first started reloading, 30/06 military ammo was available everywhere and 30/06 hunting ammo was available at every hardware along with the ever popular 30/30. Things began to shift and everybody then began shooting a .308, I suppose for the same reason as the '06 as it became the standard military round for a few years, think M14. Common sense should dictate what shot (distance, conditions) a feller is comfortable taking if he knows his weapon's capabilities.

Responding to Ken's questions, what action and why?, I leaned heavy on the pumps and semi-auto rifles when I was a very young guy. Winchester 100's and Remington 760 pumps 742 autoloaders, even tried a Ruger 44 for a while. During my early days of reloading, I had become acquainted with an elderly gunsmith in the Orlando area. He told me one day, "You need to stop all that cowboyin' and get a real rifle!" What are you saying? His response was, "Knowing the type of hunting you are doing, why not get a nice bolt action rifle and quit having trouble with those old autos y'all are messing with!" Naturally he had a rifle for sale. He reintroduced me to the wonderful world of bolt actions. I had had several sporterized 03s and even almost completed a 1917 sporter, complete with milling the ears from the receiver in the old gentleman's gun shop. (Somebody wanted it worse than I did, probably traded it for something I thought was cool ) Mr. Cook put me in the driver's seat of a very nice Remington 700 30/06. It is a very low serial #, only 5 numbers, 32XXX with a 19" factory barrel. He suggested a bullet for the type of hunting I was doing and the rest is history. The old rifle still sits ready to go but has been replaced by a newer 700 in .243. Biggest reason, the recoil isn't as bad and the .243 will kill a Florida deer just as quick as any of the larger calibers, contrary to the gun writers of old, when I was a kid. Mostly hunting from elevated stands, a quick follow up shot is not needed as it was when we hunted from horseback following a pack of deer hounds. All that is what Mr. Cook called "cowboyin" that was about the time Mickey raised his ugly head in Central Florida.

Excuse the ramblin', sometimes an' ol' feller needs to remember how things used to be.
Treefarmer

99% of my hunting is with a Ithaca 37 pump.. So my rifle is a Remington 760 pump in .270.. Just made sense to me.. John

garddogg

I usually hunt deer with a 99 R in 300Sav. That 30-30 is my walking around chuck rife. Keeps me outa trouble in the warmer months. Load up some cast bullets or some lightweight HP's and I'm good to go. This my latest R a pre war model with a Stith mount and Lyman Alaskan.

ken98k wrote:I believe the idea with the 5.56 is to take a enemy combatant out of the fight, not necessarily kill outright.
A hit pretty much anywhere on your body from a 5.56 at anything less than 300 meters is going to take not only you out of the fight, but one or two others to get you to safety.

Yeah, I've heard that argument and they're probably right. I'm just an old non-combatant Marine with a head full of stuff that was stuck there over 56 years ago and nothing to compare it to. I still hold a prejudice against McNamara's Rodent Rifle because of stories I heard from guys who were in the shirt way back when. I probably should just shut my yap and retire to the sidelines.

I have a Ruger Mini-14 in .223, just no pictures of it. When I bought it, it was my cheap M-14.

steve99f wrote:garddogg

I usually hunt deer with a 99 R in 300Sav. That 30-30 is my walking around chuck rife. Keeps me outa trouble in the warmer months. Load up some cast bullets or some lightweight HP's and I'm good to go. This my latest R a pre war model with a Stith mount and Lyman Alaskan.

Nice Era correct scope?

I think one of the things to consider is that a lot of modern warfare is urban warfare, not infantry on foot crossing a traditional battlefield. They are kicking in doors and running around inside apartment buildings. Anything at a distance would be handled by snipers or bigger suppression weapons. And, an Apache gunship or A-10 is hopefully just a radio call away...

And Jerry, thank you for your service! I'm lower on the food chain than you - I was a non-combatant *civilian* - sitting back in the states running computer simulations of cruise missile strikes. I'm all theory, no practical. I shouldn't even be part of the conversation...

With that said, I also will say that it was pretty darn cool when Gen Shwartzkopf was doing one of his daily press briefings and I recognized the video he was showing as the cockpit display for one of the Navy cruise missiles I was working on. We were in California running simulations of a whole bunch of missions to hit the set of targets in Desert Storm, and the results were being sent to the mission commanders who selected the specific profile to load into the missiles. We never knew which profiles (if any) had actually been chosen. The simulations included models of the SAM sites protecting the targets, and we ran a large number of simulations with slightly different parameters to build probability charts of the success of each mission profile.

If everything went right, the results looked like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30vSPFLeoE

The first two hits in that video were from "our" birds...

GArddogg

Yeah its approx correct for the era. Various versions or improvements through its life but started in the 30's I think. 2.5 magnification. It's not great in low light situations but I can live with its limitations.

Finally getting a chance to shoot the new 20 gauge and something other than clays.

TwoFlowersLuggage wrote:I think one of the things to consider is that a lot of modern warfare is urban warfare, not infantry on foot crossing a traditional battlefield. They are kicking in doors and running around inside apartment buildings. Anything at a distance would be handled by snipers or bigger suppression weapons. And, an Apache gunship or A-10 is hopefully just a radio call away...

And Jerry, thank you for your service! I'm lower on the food chain than you - I was a non-combatant *civilian* - sitting back in the states running computer simulations of cruise missile strikes. I'm all theory, no practical. I shouldn't even be part of the conversation...

With that said, I also will say that it was pretty darn cool when Gen Shwartzkopf was doing one of his daily press briefings and I recognized the video he was showing as the cockpit display for one of the Navy cruise missiles I was working on. We were in California running simulations of a whole bunch of missions to hit the set of targets in Desert Storm, and the results were being sent to the mission commanders who selected the specific profile to load into the missiles. We never knew which profiles (if any) had actually been chosen. The simulations included models of the SAM sites protecting the targets, and we ran a large number of simulations with slightly different parameters to build probability charts of the success of each mission profile.

If everything went right, the results looked like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V30vSPFLeoE

The first two hits in that video were from "our" birds...

We're all spokes in the wheel.

espn77 wrote:Finally getting a chance to shoot the new 20 gauge and something other than clays.

Looks like dinner.

[/quote]
Looks like dinner. [/quote]

Ya. Now I just need to Google how to cook a stinking qual. Being a bachelor and all.

I'll probably call Nevada Jerry, his food looks good.

espn77 wrote:Finally getting a chance to shoot the new 20 gauge and something other than clays.

NICE!! Congrats!! Real good looking dogs too!! I know yinz had a GREAT DAY!!! John

jmh58 wrote: NICE!! Congrats!! Real good looking dogs too!! I know yinz had a GREAT DAY!!! John

Thanks, I'm kinda fond of my dogs. We are having a great time.