All About Pocket Knives

KnifeSlinger#81 wrote:Jerry how do you like a p220 compared to a 1911? I'm a huge (biased) fan of the 1911, but the p220 seems like the most similar thing on the market, especially the sao version. I really like the looks of the sig, plus the reliability and quality is without question.

I'm not Jerry but I've been a long-time 1911 enthusiast, and a couple years ago I bought a full-frame P220 (DA/SA). The P220 is the silkiest .45 auto I've ever fired. It's a tack driver at the range and has fantastic action. I came from exactly the same situation as you, I think - even though it's a 100+ year old design I would always preach the 1911 to friends. But once I got the P220 to the range I was almost instantly hooked. IIRC Jerry is also a huge Sigarms fan.

Winchester Buffalo Bill Commeritive Edition
Model 94 30-30 made 1968 only.
I added some gold coloring inlay to set if off

Camillus

Tsar Bomba wrote:

KnifeSlinger#81 wrote:Jerry how do you like a p220 compared to a 1911? I'm a huge (biased) fan of the 1911, but the p220 seems like the most similar thing on the market, especially the sao version. I really like the looks of the sig, plus the reliability and quality is without question.

I'm not Jerry but I've been a long-time 1911 enthusiast, and a couple years ago I bought a full-frame P220 (DA/SA). The P220 is the silkiest .45 auto I've ever fired. It's a tack driver at the range and has fantastic action. I came from exactly the same situation as you, I think - even though it's a 100+ year old design I would always preach the 1911 to friends. But once I got the P220 to the range I was almost instantly hooked. IIRC Jerry is also a huge Sigarms fan.

Hey Paul,

Let me preface this response by saying that the 1911 is a great design and firearm, no doubt. Additionally, I am partially biased to SIG for a number of reasons after having shot many other manufacturers guns. However there are some SIGs I will not buy for reasons I can explain but let me address your question specifically. That said, I have owned 1911s and currently own a SIG MAX 1911 which I really like alot. I also only two SIG P938 Micro Compact which is basically a real small 1911 minus the grip safety. Love those little guns as a backup EDC. Some guys love the 1911 like yourself and I respect that, to each his own. As I said, great design and firearm and I see the draw.

Here are my comparison between the 1911 and the SIG P220 some of which is personal preference considering SELF DEFENSE/ EDC first and RANGE second...

Safeties:

While I am a hardcore believer and practitioner of gun safety, however, I don't like any external safeties on my guns. The best gun safety is on top of one's shoulders, not on the gun. No safety on a revolvers. I personally believe that safety can provide a false sense of security that is dangerous. Think magazine disconnect.

SIG P220:

1. No external safeties. However, internal safeties prevent against dropping on the hammer and will only fire when trigger is pulled.
2. Going from SA to DA is as simple as use of the decocking lever. In fact, failure to do so I believe disables at least one of the internal safeties.

1911:

1. No major complaints here. The grip safety is pretty ingenious in my opinion. However, I have heard quite a few instances where a guy is carrying cocked, locked and ready to rock and upon draw from holster, the safety was off. I assume followed by a sinking feeling. Whether true or not, met a guy at the range and he said his Dad was LEO and mistakenly shot himself in the leg getting out of his patrol car.
2. I like to carry hammer down and chambered, my personal preference. This require me to thumb down the hammer while pulling the trigger on a live round. Does not sound like a good idea. However, as I said, I do carry the P938 which requires me to do so. Always a exciting moment.

Action:

Not a fan of SAO only personally on SIG or otherwise with the few exceptions I mentioned. As a side note, not a DAO, Striker Fire, Non Exposed hammer type of guy. Just to show I am not totally bias, I will not buy one SIG or otherwise.

SIG P220:

1. DA/ SA only for me. They make many the are SAO only. Not interested. Honestly, if that was all that was available, coin flip on P220 and 1911 for action. The P220 10mm I have is the only one of 5 or six P220 SIGs in 10mm that is DA/SA, all other are SAO.

1911:

1. SAO only and that is not my thing. No ding on the 1911 here, some guys may be into the SAO. My comment is inline with the OP question.

Reliability:

This is huge for me personally. Will not own a gun that jams or need to be fed special ammo to function. If it jams, into the river it goes. That said, I have fired 10s of thousands of rounds thru various SIGs with NEVER one jam, FTE, FTF, etc. I bought me first SIG P226 about 30 years ago. I shot 15,000 rounds threw it myself and my son (his now) anther 5000 rounds. All original parts, no need for repair, still drives tacks and never has jammed.

In all honesty, I have not fired enough rounds (thousands) to give a fair assessment on reliability. However, I did have some jams on my Springfield I sold. Could have been me, the particular gun or the ammo. So I will not judge on this one.

Accuracy:

Obviously important. Both perform very well and are a pleasure to shoot.

Maintenance:

Ability to quickly and easily field strip is really important to me.

SIG P220:

1. Field strip in 10 or 15 seconds. Same on reassembly.

1911:

1. Maybe with more practice, I personally will be more efficient in disassembly/ assembly. Felt like I was working a combination lock to reassemble and even if proficient, considerably more time to do so.

My two cents plus 200 more. Wish you were closer Paul and Tony so we could do some shooting.

My opinion and personal preference in answer to Paul's question to me.

Jerry

Left to right SIG P220 10mm 5 inch (my favorite carry), SIG P220 Combat TB 4.9 inch and my MAX (MICHEL) 1911 .45 5 inch.

Awesome 94 Camillus. Thanks for showing that.

Jerry

Jerry and Tony thank you for your opinion, you clearly have much more experience than me so I appreciate it. I really want to get my hands on a sig. They sure are fine looking hardware.

What kind of loads do you shoot out of the 10? Any of the hot stuff like buffalo bore or double tap?

Colonel,Jerry Camillus and Jerry GREAT show

KnifeSlinger#81 wrote:Jerry and Tony thank you for your opinion, you clearly have much more experience than me so I appreciate it. I really want to get my hands on a sig. They sure are fine looking hardware.

What kind of loads do you shoot out of the 10? Any of the hot stuff like buffalo bore or double tap?

Glad to help Paul. As far as ammo for 10mm, The hotter the better. That why I love the caliber. I carry 3 mags all loaded with different ammo, not mixed. RIP, ball and hollow points. The HP rounds are Buffal Bore. Check out my favorite ballistics site here...

http://www.ballistics101.com/10mm.php

Jerry

Jerry, great posts. Enjoyed reading your thoughts on the guns.

garddogg56 wrote:Colonel,Jerry Camillus and Jerry GREAT show

Thanks dogg

FRJ wrote:Jerry, great posts. Enjoyed reading your thoughts on the guns.

Thanks Joe. Appreciate you saying so. Takes some time to do as I type slow. Always hope someone gets something out of it even if they are of different opinion,

Jerry

Camillus great Winchester. I'm a lever gun fan myself.

Jerry I'm gonna give one of those Sigs a try one of these days. I really like the idea of the 10mm too. I agree with you that the best safety is the one between your ears. And I agree with you on the striker fired issue. I want a hammer, too much to go wrong with a striker fired gun imo. Too much oil, dirt, and you get light primer strikes. I've had that issue before with a Springfield XDm. Off it went on a trade for my Ruger. I'm not a fan of DAO either. I am a fan of SA specifically the 1911 and I carry cocked and locked. It isn't for everyone, but I like it. I would like to run up on a 3 inch barrel S&W K frame and give it a try though. I have a 4 inch, maybe I ought to just find some good leather for it. lol

Those clean 1911's were screaming to get dirty so myself and the two older boys (12 and 10) went out in the yard with some 230gr ball and a couple of 2 liter bottles. We had a big time.

The middle boy (Parker) is a lefty and he can shoot the commander as good or better than me. He's addicted. The oldest boy (Jackson), we're working at not stabbin st the target and slapping the trigger. His last couple of shots were really good. He's addicted too and he prefers the little officer sized 1911.

Colonel26 wrote:Camillus great Winchester. I'm a lever gun fan myself.

Jerry I'm gonna give one of those Sigs a try one of these days. I really like the idea of the 10mm too. I agree with you that the best safety is the one between your ears. And I agree with you on the striker fired issue. I want a hammer, too much to go wrong with a striker fired gun imo. Too much oil, dirt, and you get light primer strikes. I've had that issue before with a Springfield XDm. Off it went on a trade for my Ruger. I'm not a fan of DAO either. I am a fan of SA specifically the 1911 and I carry cocked and locked. It isn't for everyone, but I like it. I would like to run up on a 3 inch barrel S&W K frame and give it a try though. I have a 4 inch, maybe I ought to just find some good leather for it. lol

Those clean 1911's were screaming to get dirty so myself and the two older boys (12 and 10) went out in the yard with some 230gr ball and a couple of 2 liter bottles. We had a big time.

The middle boy (Parker) is a lefty and he can shoot the commander as good or better than me. He's addicted. The oldest boy (Jackson), we're working at not stabbin st the target and slapping the trigger. His last couple of shots were really good. He's addicted too and he prefers the little officer sized 1911.

I appreciate the response Wade! Awesome stuff about you and your young men shooting the 45s. Sounds like you had a great time and what a powerful lesson that is being taught in addition to having a good time. I think all kids should be at least offered to learn. If they are not interested, so be it but I believe as kids that they are curious and at least want the opportunity to try and see if they like it. Sounds like your boys are a chip off the old block and are taking to it with enthusiasm. Good stuff my friend. Keep up the good work.

In regards to the striker fire, good to know as far as possible light primer strikes. My main personal preference complaint on strikers, DAO (strikers are both) and the no exposed hammer (to clarify, has a flush hammer no spur and usually if not always DAO, strike 2) and even the hammerless revolvers is that I can't see hammer position so I know what state the firearm is in. This may sound stupid as I can likely figure it out but not question as to state with a old school hammer. I can see I am in DA or SA mode, simple as that. Call me old fashioned but that is just my personal preference and how I like it.

As far as the 1911, as I stated, great design and firearm. The SIG MAX 1911 I have is one of SIGs top of the line 1911 designed by Max Michel, the captain of the SIG Shooting Team. The gun obviously is built for the range and performs in phenomenal fashion at such. Adjustable Tru Glo sights, flared mag well, skeletonized speed hammer, adjustable "straight pull trigger, etc. Beyond a great shooter. That said built as a range gun but I will not own a handgun I cannot carry so it gets the nod at times and I use it as my primary EDC for the day. I really love that 1911.

So not necessarily discounting the 1911 as an option for me. Off the range, I just feel more proficient and comfortable with the other choices I have at my disposal in addition to the take down drawbacks as I see it. When I took that 1911 apart, twice when I put it back together I missed the swiveling barrel lug when inserting the take down pin. pulled back and the spring and bushing shot across the room and hit the wall. That was a 2 hours reassembly filled with loud expletives based on my lack of experience in the process.

I respect we all do it different and have our preferences. I think I will likely do cocked and locked when I carry the MAX 1911 given the holster I have that covers the trigger guard fully and the grip safety. I'll try it out.

Regards, Jerry

Thanks gentleman for all the interesting posts. Good stuff. I admire any high quality, ultra reliable firearm. Don't have anywhere near the experience with semi-autos as you fellows. I do know that SIG enjoys an enviable reputation. The one .45 I had more than 10 years ago was the Para Companion, a Commander size which I found totally reliable and having good accuracy. Enjoyed it immensely. Since the death of their creative founder some years back I do not know if Para USA has maintained quality. I did determine that, for me, the Commander size seemed to have better balance than the full size. My other semi-auto is the H&K P7, no longer produced and now too valuable to put much wear and tear on it. But these days my taste runs more to revolvers which I find very satisfying.

Quick Steel wrote:Thanks gentleman for all the interesting posts. Good stuff. I admire any high quality, ultra reliable firearm. Don't have anywhere near the experience with semi-autos as you fellows. I do know that SIG enjoys an enviable reputation. The one .45 I had more than 10 years ago was the Para Companion, a Commander size which I found totally reliable and having good accuracy. Enjoyed it immensely. Since the death of their creative founder some years back I do not know if Para USA has maintained quality. I did determine that, for me, the Commander size seemed to have better balance than the full size. My other semi-auto is the H&K P7, no longer produced and now too valuable to put much wear and tear on it. But these days my taste runs more to revolvers which I find very satisfying.

Thanks for your detail of the experience with the Para Garry. I really enjoy first hand report of all firearms as that info is always good to know.

Regards, Jerry

You can certainly google this and see youtube videos and everything this else but I figured I would take a minute and post some pics while cleaning my carry today of why I am a fan of the SIG field strip and assembly. Forgive me if you guys are bored with me by now but some may not be familiar with it and interested.

You can hover over pics for descriptions. Enlarge first pic to see controls location.

Simple as this...

1. Remove magazine. Unload and check to see if clear.
2. Lock back the slide.
3. Rotate the take down lever 90 degrees clockwise.
4. Pull slide back to release slide catch and push the slide off the front.
5. Push with your thumb on the guide rod and spring and tilt upward and remove from slide.
6. You are done in all of about 15 seconds more or less.

Of course reassembly is reverse of disassembly.

Jerry

zp4ja wrote:

Colonel26 wrote:Camillus great Winchester. I'm a lever gun fan myself.

Jerry I'm gonna give one of those Sigs a try one of these days. I really like the idea of the 10mm too. I agree with you that the best safety is the one between your ears. And I agree with you on the striker fired issue. I want a hammer, too much to go wrong with a striker fired gun imo. Too much oil, dirt, and you get light primer strikes. I've had that issue before with a Springfield XDm. Off it went on a trade for my Ruger. I'm not a fan of DAO either. I am a fan of SA specifically the 1911 and I carry cocked and locked. It isn't for everyone, but I like it. I would like to run up on a 3 inch barrel S&W K frame and give it a try though. I have a 4 inch, maybe I ought to just find some good leather for it. lol

Those clean 1911's were screaming to get dirty so myself and the two older boys (12 and 10) went out in the yard with some 230gr ball and a couple of 2 liter bottles. We had a big time.

The middle boy (Parker) is a lefty and he can shoot the commander as good or better than me. He's addicted. The oldest boy (Jackson), we're working at not stabbin st the target and slapping the trigger. His last couple of shots were really good. He's addicted too and he prefers the little officer sized 1911.

I appreciate the response Wade! Awesome stuff about you and your young men shooting the 45s. Sounds like you had a great time and what a powerful lesson that is being taught in addition to having a good time. I think all kids should be at least offered to learn. If they are not interested, so be it but I believe as kids that they are curious and at least want the opportunity to try and see if they like it. Sounds like your boys are a chip off the old block and are taking to it with enthusiasm. Good stuff my friend. Keep up the good work.

In regards to the striker fire, good to know as far as possible light primer strikes. My main personal preference complaint on strikers, DAO (strikers are both) and the no exposed hammer (to clarify, has a flush hammer no spur and usually if not always DAO, strike 2) and even the hammerless revolvers is that I can't see hammer position so I know what state the firearm is in. This may sound stupid as I can likely figure it out but not question as to state with a old school hammer. I can see I am in DA or SA mode, simple as that. Call me old fashioned but that is just my personal preference and how I like it.

As far as the 1911, as I stated, great design and firearm. The SIG MAX 1911 I have is one of SIGs top of the line 1911 designed by Max Michel, the captain of the SIG Shooting Team. The gun obviously is built for the range and performs in phenomenal fashion at such. Adjustable Tru Glo sights, flared mag well, skeletonized speed hammer, adjustable "straight pull trigger, etc. Beyond a great shooter. That said built as a range gun but I will not own a handgun I cannot carry so it gets the nod at times and I use it as my primary EDC for the day. I really love that 1911.

So not necessarily discounting the 1911 as an option for me. Off the range, I just feel more proficient and comfortable with the other choices I have at my disposal in addition to the take down drawbacks as I see it. When I took that 1911 apart, twice when I put it back together I missed the swiveling barrel lug when inserting the take down pin. pulled back and the spring and bushing shot across the room and hit the wall. That was a 2 hours reassembly filled with loud expletives based on my lack of experience in the process.

I respect we all do it different and have our preferences. I think I will likely do cocked and locked when I carry the MAX 1911 given the holster I have that covers the trigger guard fully and the grip safety. I'll try it out.

Regards, Jerry

Jerry, I couldn't help but chuckle at your 1911 cleaning experience. Sounds exactly like something that would happen to me. Field stripping my Ruger, which is a standard old school GI set up is a piece of cake, for me. The Kimber has a bull barrel and no barrel bushing and is more complicated. I really need at least one more hand for it. Lol.

I like hammers on handguns. I like to see the hammer and I like the ability to thumb cock the hammer and try again should the round not fire. But the main reason is in my opinion the striker mechanism is a weak point.

I had a Springfield XDm that was a very good gun. But one day some friends and I were shooting at one of them's farm. I cleaned the Springfield the night before and evidently I was over exuberant in oiling it and some oil got into the striker channel. After several rounds the oil mixed with burnt powder residue gummed up the works. I started getting light primer strikes. The primers had dimples but the striker didn't have enough force to set them off. We dropped the rounds in a 1911 and they fired perfect.

They work for a lot of people. But I can't stand a dry firearm. So for me, they don't work. Give me a hammer.

Btw, I really like that Sig of yours.

Quick Steel wrote:Thanks gentleman for all the interesting posts. Good stuff. I admire any high quality, ultra reliable firearm. Don't have anywhere near the experience with semi-autos as you fellows. I do know that SIG enjoys an enviable reputation. The one .45 I had more than 10 years ago was the Para Companion, a Commander size which I found totally reliable and having good accuracy. Enjoyed it immensely. Since the death of their creative founder some years back I do not know if Para USA has maintained quality. I did determine that, for me, the Commander size seemed to have better balance than the full size. My other semi-auto is the H&K P7, no longer produced and now too valuable to put much wear and tear on it. But these days my taste runs more to revolvers which I find very satisfying.

QS, Jerry is the expert not me. I just got my first semi auto year before last. Trial and error and lots of reading and talking to others more knowledgeable than I, that's what I did. I wish I knew more. I'm just now figuring out what works for me.

Colonel26 wrote:

Quick Steel wrote:Thanks gentleman for all the interesting posts. Good stuff. I admire any high quality, ultra reliable firearm. Don't have anywhere near the experience with semi-autos as you fellows. I do know that SIG enjoys an enviable reputation. The one .45 I had more than 10 years ago was the Para Companion, a Commander size which I found totally reliable and having good accuracy. Enjoyed it immensely. Since the death of their creative founder some years back I do not know if Para USA has maintained quality. I did determine that, for me, the Commander size seemed to have better balance than the full size. My other semi-auto is the H&K P7, no longer produced and now too valuable to put much wear and tear on it. But these days my taste runs more to revolvers which I find very satisfying.

QS, Jerry is the expert not me. I just got my first semi auto year before last. Trial and error and lots of reading and talking to others more knowledgeable than I, that's what I did. I wish I knew more. I'm just now figuring out what works for me.

Wade my friend, no expert here. I just pass on what I know and have learned from experience and research and trail/error as you stated. SIG for firearms is like CASE knives to me. I stick to one brand I favor for various reasons, research and collect/acquire that so my area of focus is more narrow. I figure learn as much as you can about one brand you like. Just how I do it. Far from expert though. Lots based on experience, knowledge and opinion, nothing more my friend.

Thanks for the take down info on the 1911s you have in the previous post. Good to know.

Regards, Jerry

I can still remember getting my first .22 rifle and the excitement of plinking and hunting for the first time, now I nolonger hunt but enjoy shooting my rifles.
Still my gun of choice for target shooting is my Mossberg Tbolt with peep sights.
It has been a flawless shooter for years now.
I have owned several others I still wish I kept, like a Sako Finnfire heavy barrel that I won a silhouette tournament with and a antique Remington pump.
Here are the remaining .22 rifles I have.

Ruger 10/22 50th Anniversary Edition
Anschutz bolt action model 141
Mossberg bolt action No. 46
Mossberg semi auto No. 151m
Mossberg bolt action model 146B
Springfield bolt action model 86

Camillus

Awesome collection Camillus. The 3rd from the right, is that a Mannlicher stock? If not, my eyes are deceiving me. If yes, then that is super cool and a whole bunch more superlatives. How about the 4th from the right?

Ruger has a Mannlicher stock
Mossberg 46 has a custom Mannlicher stock
Mossberg 151M has a Mannlicher stock

Thanks QS

Camillus

Very nice .22 rifles Camillus! Love the stock on the far left rifle. The other are nice of course but I am drawn to that one in particular.

Jerry

Nice collection of 22's Camillus! That T bolt Mossberg is a nice one to have. I had a couple of Mossberg's over the years, all bolt actions and they all shot very well.

Here is a 22 I just recently took some pictures of but they didn't turn out too well. Remington Model 4 rolling block in above average condition. Produced in 1903. I should look so good... Using to shoot carpenter bees, deadly at 8 foot.

Steve my friend, nice oldie there. I have heard of the rolling block before but never handled one. Have to research that. Not knowing much, is it considered to be a very dependable action?

I would like see some close ups of the T Bolt Camillus if you would be so kind.

Jerry

Jerry:

Very strong actions. Some were chambered in 7mm Mauser for some foreign militaries as well as .43 Spanish. The Model 4 was chambered in 22 RF, 32 RF and 25 Stevens. Mostly they were used as buffalo guns in the larger BP rounds like 45-70.

The rolling block action has the breech block that rotates open and closed on a screw. It contains the firing pin. To open the action, pull back the hammer to full cock, roll the block all the way back. The breech is now open and can be loaded. Once loaded, roll the block closed, and you are all set,. The hammer does have a half cock position. Single shot only.