Page 2 of 2
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:20 pm
by jw517
The coil springs on a trap are the first parts to rust too. Not so with a long spring trap. The back spring on say a Boker or this Coricama seem very hard in comparison. I opened both blades on a boker I have a SNAP, it broke. I don’t think a trap spring would do that .it would bend a bit . I’m getting a head ache.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:56 pm
by mqqn
I am with Mr. DeShivs on this.
As to traps, it would be dangerous to store them "set".
Same with knives, but of course less so.
To each their own.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:12 pm
by jw517
Some people store their 330 and 220 Conibear killer traps set because they are hard to set in the field I guess. They are made with a safety catch on each spring. Once the trigger is set a trap in in place the safety is removed.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:21 pm
by jw517
It reminds though of a thrift sale I was at and on the garage wall was a “strung” Wing Redwing Hunter recurve bow. It was full of grime and dust. Must have been there for at least a decade. I bought it for ten bucks. I refinished it and put a new string on it and it seemed fine. Not the smartest way to store a valuable wood bow. It’s a spring too!
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:06 am
by mqqn
jw517 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:12 pm
Some people store their 330 and 220 Conibear killer traps set because they are hard to set in the field I guess. They are made with a safety catch on each spring. Once the trigger is set a trap in in place the safety is removed.
Thank you, it makes sense that newer traps would have safety accomodations.
When I saw this thread pop up, I was ready to discuss storing old cars.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:09 am
by jw517
Ha!
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:12 pm
by No youre wrong
Bill DeShivs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:52 pm
That tension does absolutely nothing until the parts move.
Metallurgy is a complicated subject that is above many people's heads.
Here's the simple man's answer:
If you NEVER close your switchblade, the spring can not break.
The super strong steel springs putting tension on the little whimpy brass pin in the rocker and thin brass liners and the thin part of a sear and rocker doesn’t matter? If the thin liners and small pins couldn’t handle that tension wouldn’t things start to bend and warp?
This question comes up a lot and there are answers to both side. To each his own is the best method of storing. I think they look 10 times cooler stored open, lol.
On this subject why do so many German springers have broken backsprings? Any experts know?
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:43 pm
by Bill DeShivs
I'll take the bait..
No, it doesn't matter. Metal stops moving one it reaches a certain point.
German springers don't generally break backsprings- but Hubertus knives do. It's because the springs are designed to be forced into place after the knives are assembled. These springs later slip forward-upsetting the geometry and putting undue pressure on a part of the backspring that is not designed to withstand it. Occasionally, this happens with stilettos and other knives that don't have secure springs, or with springs that the owners have bent to try to increase opening pressure.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:08 pm
by Mumbleypeg
With today’s internet search capability it is relatively easy to find scientific studies, performed by and for the use of mechanical engineers, on the failure analysis of springs made from various types of metal and other materials. Using mechanical methods to repeatedly “flex” springs within their specified design tolerances, they do in fact fail - after 100s-of-thousands of cycles. Far more than they will ever be subjected to in a lifetime of normal use. Of course, these studies are on springs used in applications (and environments) far more stressful than knives. One can simply look up the data, or continue to believe and propagate “old wives tales”. It’s your choice.
That said, anything can be abused to the point of failure. Abuse of knives is a whole ‘nuther thread.
Ken
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:08 pm
by No youre wrong
Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:08 pm
With today’s internet search capability it is relatively easy to find scientific studies, performed by and for the use of mechanical engineers, on the failure analysis of springs made from various types of metal and other materials. Using mechanical methods to repeatedly “flex” springs within their specified design tolerances, they do in fact fail - after 100s-of-thousands of cycles. Far more than they will ever be subjected to in a lifetime of normal use. Of course, these studies are on springs used in applications (and environments) far more stressful than knives. One can simply look up the data, or continue to believe and propagate “old wives tales”. It’s your choice.
That said, anything can be abused to the point of failure. Abuse of knives is a whole ‘nuther thread.
Ken
Agreed and if we’re talking old springs that same previous OCD owner clicked 1000 times and rust and more, I’d err on the side of caution and keep them open. You never know when that last opening or closing will be the last one.
Maybe someone here can perform the metal test and let us all know how many springs break. Lol
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:31 pm
by jw517
The steel on this Coricama is thick and mirror polished. It reminds me of a steel I was trying to drill years ago. It was not possible. That can’t be said about other knives I’ve held. I took this to the experts at Cliff Industrial and they took it in back and brought it back out 30 minutes later telling me they didn’t know what it was but they could not drill it. I think it depends on the steel more than anything.How it’s hardened/what it’s made of. I did make my hole in that hard steel. I used a diamond drill/water.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:19 pm
by Bill DeShivs
As I have said- if you never close your knife, the spring won't break.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:57 pm
by No youre wrong
Bill DeShivs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:19 pm
As I have said- if you never close your knife, the spring won't break.
Good advice. Thanks, you’re the best
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:28 am
by edge213
Bill DeShivs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:19 pm
As I have said- if you never close your knife, the spring won't break.
Bill, I hope that I am understanding you correctly.
Please correct me if I am not.
If the knife is open and never closed, the spring will not break.
If the knife is closed and never opened, the spring will not break.
It is the "working" of the spring by opening and closing that will cause failure, over a period of time.
All of the above is considering a properly manufactured spring.
Guys bring up car springs whenever this topic is discussed.
If a car sat for 50 years in a garage from the time it was new, the springs would not weaken and sag.
It's the constant flexing up and down of the springs from daily driving that cause failure.
I am not stating anything as fact, just the way that I understand this topic.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:58 am
by Bill DeShivs
You pretty much have it!
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 10:02 pm
by hardman
I respect the opinions stated by the folks on both sides of this "issue." You all present a convincing case to back up your position.
That said, a few years ago I had Muskrat Man (Kaleb) repair an old Press Button "Victor" model auto that required a new spring. He did an amazing job. I then asked him his opinion on storage. He suggested storing the knife in the full open position. And that is how I store it. I trusted him with a knife that was very important to me, and I will trust his advice on storage.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 10:09 pm
by bestgear
hardman wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 10:02 pm
I respect the opinions stated by the folks on both sides of this "issue." You all present a convincing case to back up your position
X2!
would someone please post some images of how much real estate is needed when storing autos open and methods of storing open? Curious subject for sure.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:09 pm
by Madmarco
I'm not set-up to take pictures, Tom, so this is the best I can do, hope it helps!
7/open + 14/closed, twice as many!
I have another box that's storing 9/open, but closed definitely affords more space!
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:21 pm
by jw517
They look prettier open!
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:24 pm
by bestgear
Ahhh now I see - I agree they do look better - thank you Mark, that picture is worth 1,000 words.
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:25 pm
by Madmarco
Agreed 100%, jw!
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:26 pm
by Madmarco
Most welcome, Tom!
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:27 pm
by bestgear
Madmarco wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:09 pm7 open vs 14 closed, twice as many
all good - they look really good!
Re: Storing autos
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:57 pm
by Madmarco
Thanks, Tom, they're my favorites!