All About Pocket Knives

Bill, I didn't mean to imply yours are counterfeit. Just remarking that the counterfeit Winchesters and my ignorance about them has kept me away. Don't read anything into that statement.

Ken

Thanks Ken ... I agree the aspect of counterfeits is an issue - couple that to original Winchester knives being fairly rare makes it a hard brand to be comfortable collecting... at least with Case knives where counterfeits are numerous there are lots of references and original Case knives from which to learn the ins-and-outs of them.. not so with Winchester and I don't know one collector who focuses on Winchester ... I got lucky finding these 2 which I was able to confirm as being original... You rarely if ever see original Winchesters on eBay and the great majority seen are repros...

Winchester did make alot of products as did Remington in addition to their well known guns & knives - I think that is why some consider both of them as National brands... Speaking of the many products they made and sold - last year I saw an old Remington cash register for sale at a antique shop - and it was made somewhere in NY state with the Remington brand name ...

Thanks Bill .... I'm not saying yours are counterfeit - I'm not sure in the 1930s when Winchester quality started to slide if the model #s were still used - I just don't know and am far from a Winchester expert.... I'm not sure we have anybody on AAPK who knows Winchester really well - maybe Dimitri has some knowledge about them...

Lee and Ken, I appreciate both of your input. I hope they aren't counterfeit, but I would definitely like to know. The best thing is no one else will have to worry about it.I don't sell any of my knives. If there was that emergency situation where I had to it wouldn't be these two.

cato wrote:newest Winchester
Barlow
one arm razor

cato, is your Barlow a old Winchester or Queen made knife? Looks like you are getting a few nice ones.

Harold

BWT wrote:Lee and Ken, I appreciate both of your input. I hope they aren't counterfeit, but I would definitely like to know. The best thing is no one else will have to worry about it.I don't sell any of my knives. If there was that emergency situation where I had to it wouldn't be these two.

Bill - Do you have Goins reference book on company stamps?? I recommend it if you don’t as an important source to verify the stamp existed, sometimes to date a knife and with some (not all) company stamps there is a brief history ... Nonetheless the stamps were basically the same though some, importantly not all, like my jack had a hyphen before and after Trade Mark - that doesn’t relate to real vs fake though.. Importantly Goins notes many Winchester FAKES (in capital letters ) are out there and he said some are so good that even Winchester experts are fooled - that makes for some tough collecting and knowing knives real well for the slightest hints may still make it tough... the important point now Bill is that you like the knives and their solid as you noted ... I’m not sure what role the lack of model #s play into determining real from fake - again later in the 1930s it is possible that model #s weren’t used or maybe your knives were made by Queen which given their closure makes them collectible anyway ... I just don’t know - just enjoy the knives buddy!!!

Thanks Lee I will still enjoy looking at them, and I have a Goins. I had looked at the tang stamps in the book and on the knife to see when they were made. For whatever reason at that time I didn't read what Goins said about them. I just got to excited when I found the knives. I will definitely remember that in the future, could be a costly error.

BWT-Bill,I hate to tell you this ,but your lockback hunter is not right.Winchester never made a pattern like yours.If I were to guess your's started as an Ulster.Winchester put pattern #'s on their knives also.Winchester made a 1950 pattern lockback banana pattern with a saber blade and the 1920 cokebottle,but nothing like yours.Sorry.

That's ok Roger, you live and learn, I appreciate your help. Thanks

peanut740 wrote:BWT-Bill,I hate to tell you this ,but your lockback hunter is not right.Winchester never made a pattern like yours.If I were to guess your's started as an Ulster.Winchester put pattern #'s on their knives also.Winchester made a 1950 pattern lockback banana pattern with a saber blade and the 1920 cokebottle,but nothing like yours.Sorry.

Good input Roger though sorry Bill for the news - definitely took someone who has seen many Winchesters and others to make that determination though I suspected the lack of model #s was perhaps an issue ...

Bill - it happens and to many of us in one way or another somewhere along the learning curve..

Roger - Just so I have this right as I wasn't able to locate the info but Winchester did have model #s on all their knives from 1919 until they closed their doors in 1942?? I had a feeling when I had read their quality dropped in the later 1930s that perhaps the model #s may not have been on every knife but that was my interpretation... Were model #s still on the later reproductions??? Interestingly the Winchester stamps were almost indistinguishable according to Goins even on later repros...

Yes Lee, late in their production they may have stopped putting pattern #'s on for cost cutting,and yes the quality went way down.I don't know if it was true in all cases or not.Bill's knife is just a pattern they didn't make.Ulster and Northfield are 2 companies that made that type knife.
Both Sargent's 3rd edition and Price guide to Collecteors Knives have Winchester listings in them and neither of them list anything like it.

Thanks Roger .. I understood that the knife was not right and never made based on your first post but I was was trying to learn about their use of model #s for my own edification - much appreciated Roger!!!

Here is one I have.

Woodwalker - That’s a beauty of Winchester lobster pattern .... just nice all the way around - sweet jigged bone and a HOK - love it!!!! Personally I can overlook a small chip or crack on handle when all else is appealing...

Very nice WW especially the bone, nice find

Bill,
Note the tang stamps on your knives and the lack of a hyphen on either side of the words 'trade mark'. I always take a hard look at any supposed old Winchester without the hyphen before and after the words 'trade mark' on a Winchester tang stamp. During the 70's there were a lot of fake Winchesters circulating at the bigger knife shows and the lack of the hyphen was one of the best tells.
Jim

Thanks Jim for the info, I'm learning something every day about these Winchesters

Jim,I learnt something today!

Interesting Jim and good info ... Good to keep in mind though my 3046 above also did not have hyphens so it is not a hard and fast rule - but your point is well taken in that those without the hyphen before or after Trade Mark can be suspect ... I know Case knives can no doubt be tough but at least there is books such as Steve’s which is excellent in terms of details plus lots of examples of knives - couple that to the many who collect Case and there is lots of help when questions arise (I think our Counterfeit forum has more Case examples than any other brand) - don’t get me wrong though as I think you need to know your stuff well to be successful in collecting Case ... To me Winchester knives are even harder to collect because there is not one sole reference to my knowledge which just focuses on them plus the rarity of seeing many originals - and that is despite the few books that include Winchester info as Roger referred to above - at least to my knowledge there is not a sole reference book just on Winchester with photos of many knives plus the ins and outs of collecting them... a big collection of original true Winchesters would be hard earned and very valuable to folks who would like to collect them in my opinion ... Just my 2 cents thinking about it...

Others have pointed out some resources for Winchester knives. This one I have contains about 45 pages of old Winchester pocket knife catalog cuts, out of 750 total pages on Winchester products. I don't know if it's still in print.

Ken

Cool - thanks very much Ken ... even if just not just Winchester knives it should be helpful with the catalog cuts if I can find it for a good price since it is out of print ... Books are such a valuable resource for knife collecting - I learned that long ago ... Knowledge is so key and can’t be stressed enough..,,

LongBlade wrote:Woodwalker - That’s a beauty of Winchester lobster pattern .... just nice all the way around - sweet jigged bone and a HOK - love it!!!! Personally I can overlook a small chip or crack on handle when all else is appealing...

Thank you Lee!! Just got off work and seen your post! Appreciate your comments on the Lobster!!

BWT wrote:Very nice WW especially the bone, nice find

Thank you Bill!! Appreciate ya!!

One thing about Winchesters is that many of them were made by Walden, therefore many patterns are identical to Keen Kutter's and by studying Keen Kutter's, which are fairly well documented, you can learn something about Winchesters.

Good information Lee, Roger, Jim , and Ken.

I’d recommend this book, it has a section on Winchester and other fakes, stampings, etc. I think it was given to each new NKCA membership at one time.

Click on,it will straighten up, I haven’t read Jerry’s tutorial on how to fix the pictures and it’s bedtime.

wlf wrote:Good information Lee, Roger, Jim , and Ken.

I’d recommend this book, it has a section on Winchester and other fakes, stampings, etc. I think it was given to each new NKCA membership at one time.

Click on,it will straighten up, I haven’t read Jerry’s tutorial on how to fix the pictures and it’s bedtime.

Don't worry Lyle. When JerryD sees this, his OCD will kick in, and he'll fix it for you.

Ken