All About Pocket Knives

Great looking dogs everybody!

Colonel26 wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 7:34 pm
Tom, I think LA did a great job explaining all of this, but I can add a little bit of my experience that I think will help.

In my hunting dogs AA (prey drive) is a great thing, else they wouldn’t hunt but HA can’t be tolerated.

In my herding dogs AA (prey drive) can be a good thing to as some of the things they have to do aren’t that different from a hunting dog searching out the game, just manifested in different ways. Herding dogs also tend to be very territorial and protective when it comes to strangers, I guess you could call it a very mild HA/DA, again it’s a somewhat good thing in mild doses because they protect their stock from predators both two legged and four legged.

In my Great Pyrenees guardian dogs that run with the goats they have ZERO prey drive and that’s a good thing, else they would be tempted to kill the stock they are guarding. But they do have AA as they will not permit strange animals in the field with their stock, like the old grey fox that used to live in my fence row who is no more. Likewise if they perceive you to be a threat to their stock, you won’t be welcome either.

It’s amazing to me how these traits have been bred into and out of the various breeds over the years to meet our needs in these wonderful creatures.

What he said ☝.
Another example of a working-dog is the boar hunter's catch-dog, which requires the utmost courage. The APBT possesses this quality and some excel as a catch-dogs but since D.A. is common, amongst their breed, consideration must be taken that the catch-dog don't ignore the hog and prefer to catch any of the other dogs on the team instead. *This is why this dog is usually let out last only after the boar has been cornered by the bay dogs.

This old girl just came to live with us today. This is pepper a 6 year old Landers bred Yellow Black Mouth Cur.

She trees squirrel, coon, possum, and Bob cat. We’re looking forward to squirrel hunting with her this fall.

Colonel26 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm She trees squirrel, coon, possum, and Bob cat.

She trees bobcat? That's awesome!

Dan In MI wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:56 pm

Colonel26 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm She trees squirrel, coon, possum, and Bob cat.

She trees bobcat? That's awesome!

Let me qualify that. I have no doubt she will. My friend I got her off of said he had a bobcat coming around his chickens. The way he found out was Pepper was barking her head off and he went down to her and she’d pulled her dog house halfway through the field trying to get to the bobcat.

But I’ve not seen her actually tree one yet. I’m hoping to this year though.

Colonel26 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm This old girl just came to live with us today. This is pepper a 6 year old Landers bred Yellow Black Mouth Cur.

She trees squirrel, coon, possum, and Bob cat. We’re looking forward to squirrel hunting with her this fall.

E4AAA047-D101-4F6D-B14C-20C2E3D22A8A.jpeg

Awesome! Thanks for sharing a picture of her.

Nice looking Black Mouth me and my wife had a red Landers he got to where we were scared he was gonna bite someone he was so protective of her we didn't teach him to do it he was just that devoted to her we called him Ripper & he lived up to that name...he would tree anything that would climb & could wind a cat two city blocks away in a snow storm he would be sleeping and get up barking go to the front window and tree bark till you make him shut up..he would also tell you when the mailman was on our street over 100 yards away You'll have fun come October mine would tree squirel on a dead run as fast as you could shoot them you'd limit out in half an hour

PigStikr wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 12:09 pm Nice looking Black Mouth me and my wife had a red Landers he got to where we were scared he was gonna bite someone he was so protective of her we didn't teach him to do it he was just that devoted to her we called him Ripper & he lived up to that name...he would tree anything that would climb & could wind a cat two city blocks away in a snow storm he would be sleeping and get up barking go to the front window and tree bark till you make him shut up..he would also tell you when the mailman was on our street over 100 yards away You'll have fun come October mine would tree squirel on a dead run as fast as you could shoot them you'd limit out in half an hour

I enjoyed reading this, thanks for sharing.

Nothing like a 120 lb dog that loves kids. Tuukka taking care of Brogan.
Bill

Colonel26 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm This old girl just came to live with us today. This is pepper a 6 year old Landers bred Yellow Black Mouth Cur.

She trees squirrel, coon, possum, and Bob cat. We’re looking forward to squirrel hunting with her this fall.

E4AAA047-D101-4F6D-B14C-20C2E3D22A8A.jpeg

Great looking hound.

cudgee wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 11:49 pm

Colonel26 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm This old girl just came to live with us today. This is pepper a 6 year old Landers bred Yellow Black Mouth Cur.

She trees squirrel, coon, possum, and Bob cat. We’re looking forward to squirrel hunting with her this fall.

E4AAA047-D101-4F6D-B14C-20C2E3D22A8A.jpeg

Great looking hound.

Thank you sir!

PigStikr wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 12:09 pm Nice looking Black Mouth me and my wife had a red Landers he got to where we were scared he was gonna bite someone he was so protective of her we didn't teach him to do it he was just that devoted to her we called him Ripper & he lived up to that name...he would tree anything that would climb & could wind a cat two city blocks away in a snow storm he would be sleeping and get up barking go to the front window and tree bark till you make him shut up..he would also tell you when the mailman was on our street over 100 yards away You'll have fun come October mine would tree squirel on a dead run as fast as you could shoot them you'd limit out in half an hour

I’ve read they can be very protective of their person. We’ve raised English Shepherds (herding dogs) for years and they can be pretty protective too. We had one that wouldn’t let the grandparents on either side touch the boys if she was loose.

We’ve been making buddies with Pepper the last couple of days. In a couple of weeks we’ll take her out in the back field and see what we can get into. It’s about 6 acres with lots of brush, blackberries, and loaded with oaks, hickories, and beech trees. And it’s east up with big ol fat squirrels, coons, and possums.

I shared my dogs for you guys to appreciate. Seems most of you on here don't like them. That's fine because I know they can do anything yours can do and then some.

*Everyone's such a "dog lover" until an American Pit Bull Terrier shows up to reveal who's actually who in the crowd.

Interesting discussion about dog traits and how centuries of breeding have instilled (distilled?) distinctive traits into the breed. My dogs since reaching adulthood have been mostly retrieving breeds - Goldens and Labs, with an English Springer, a Yorkie, and an Akbash at one time or another. The differences are amazing.

The retrievers, at least the good ones, have such strong drive for retrieving that it’s unbelievable. They live for fetching things and bringing them to you, and in most it doesn’t have to be taught, just encouraged. They also love being in the water. The ones I’ve had pretty much ignore other animals, unless it’s to carry them unharmed in their mouth. Unless you shoot it and send them for it they couldn’t care less, but they can be readily trained to retrieve birds, rabbit, sheds, etc. They also make excellent scent detection (drugs, people both alive and dead, etc) and service dogs. They’re definitely not HA, but must have some level of AA to get them to hunt and retrieve. I’ve had to call them back from a retrieve where a wounded bird got into a tree, and the dog literally tried to climb the tree after it. I had to call one back once for fear she would drown trying to get the duck.

Akbash is a livestock protection dog of Turkish origin, thought to be one of the oldest breeds. They’ll live outdoors in the field with livestock year around regardless of weather, protecting the stock. But woe be unto the predator entering their realm. I’ve seen my Akbash run down and catch coyotes. My neighbors have problems with wild hogs. You can’t find sign of one on my place.

I’ve yet to figure out what a current day Yorkshire Terrier is good for aside from looking cute, sitting in your lap, and peeing on your floor. They have a strong PA drive (Pee Anywhere). The one we had never was housebroken, cost us a small fortune in vet bills, went blind.

Ken

Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 3:38 am Interesting discussion about dog traits and how centuries of breeding have instilled (distilled?) distinctive traits into the breed. My dogs since reaching adulthood have been mostly retrieving breeds - Goldens and Labs, with an English Springer, a Yorkie, and an Akbash at one time or another. The differences are amazing.

The retrievers, at least the good ones, have such strong drive for retrieving that it’s unbelievable. They live for fetching things and bringing them to you, and in most it doesn’t have to be taught, just encouraged. They also love being in the water. The ones I’ve had pretty much ignore other animals, unless it’s to carry them unharmed in their mouth. Unless you shoot it and send them for it they couldn’t care less, but they can be readily trained to retrieve birds, rabbit, sheds, etc. They also make excellent scent detection (drugs, people both alive and dead, etc) and service dogs. They’re definitely not HA, but must have some level of AA to get them to hunt and retrieve. I’ve had to call them back from a retrieve where a wounded bird got into a tree, and the dog literally tried to climb the tree after it. I had to call one back once for fear she would drown trying to get the duck.

Akbash is a livestock protection dog of Turkish origin, thought to be one of the oldest breeds. They’ll live outdoors in the field with livestock year around regardless of weather, protecting the stock. But woe be unto the predator entering their realm. I’ve seen my Akbash run down and catch coyotes. My neighbors have problems with wild hogs. You can’t find sign of one on my place.

I’ve yet to figure out what a current day Yorkshire Terrier is good for aside from looking cute, sitting in your lap, and peeing on your floor. They have a strong PA drive (Pee Anywhere). The one we had never was housebroken, cost us a small fortune in vet bills, went blind.

Ken

Ken, I’ve heard the same stories over an over about the Yorkies. Lol. I love the PA drive thing.

All my bird dogs have been pointers and setters, but you’re right that the hunting drive is is something amazing to watch. They just won’t quit!

But that Akbash of yours really interests me. I’ve never heard of one in my area, but we do have a lot of Great Pyrenees here. My two are with the goats and chickens. They’re super friendly, big ol fluffy goofballs. That is until a critter that isn’t their flock shows up. They’ve killed foxes and all other manner of vermin, and even though we have a lot of coyotes around us I’ve never seen one on my place since getting the GP. Do you have any experience with GP? How do you think they compare with Akbash?

Loose Arrow wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 3:29 am I shared my dogs for you guys to appreciate. Seems most of you on here don't like them. That's fine because I know they can do anything yours can do and some.

Your dogs seem to be amazing athletes. They definitely seem much different than the pitts we normally see in my neck of the backwoods!

Ken's experiences with dogs differ from mine. The black Lab mix I had in high school hated being wet. If he was in the backyard, and someone turned the garden hose on, he sprinted away in no time flat! My maternal grandparents had a Yorkie who left little "gifts" all over the house. However, I'm pretty sure my Little Dudette is part Yorkie, and she has no such issues. Maybe my dogs got the best (or worst) genes of their ancestors. Dog behavior is a strange thing, that's for sure!

LA, I do think your dogs have amazingly powerful looking physiques which I think is awesome. I admit that I would be somewhat intimidated upon meeting one. Do you allow them to come indoors?

Colonel26 wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 5:12 am

Loose Arrow wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 3:29 am I shared my dogs for you guys to appreciate. Seems most of you on here don't like them. That's fine because I know they can do anything yours can do and some.

Your dogs seem to be amazing athletes. They definitely seem much different than the pitts we normally see in my neck of the backwoods!

Much appreciated. I'm grateful to be so fortunate.
Here's an old picture of Heinzl's Kayo (9th great-grandsire) a Colby dog circa 1940. See any resemblance?

Quick Steel wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 5:33 am LA, I do think your dogs have amazingly powerful looking physiques which I think is awesome. I admit that I would be somewhat intimidated upon meeting one. Do you allow them to come indoors?

Thank you! Yes sir, they're very well behaved.

Nice looking bull dawgs LA---30 plus years ago I traded off a Mt. Cur for a 2 yr. old pup that had been left on a chain that and not worked on anything but he was muscled up just like your breed back then they were papered as Tennessee Treeing Brindles--tTrail of Tears bloodline he might have been 40 lb. cat footed I think the bloodline is now papered as a Mt. Cur

LA, There is lots of resemblance. And there is another resemblance.

I have seen paintings of English Bulldogs from the 18th and 19th century. Yours look very similar. I know English Bulldogs are very popular today but the breeders, in my view, have ruined them. No English Bulldog today can be born naturally. They have become so distorted that they are all born by the Caesarian section. They are saddled as well with breathing difficulties. From the lean muscular dogs of yore, we now have strong marshmallows.

PigStikr wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 1:56 pm Nice looking bull dawgs LA---30 plus years ago I traded off a Mt. Cur for a 2 yr. old pup that had been left on a chain that and not worked on anything but he was muscled up just like your breed back then they were papered as Tennessee Treeing Brindles--tTrail of Tears bloodline he might have been 40 lb. cat footed I think the bloodline is now papered as a Mt. Cur

Thanks! I have never heard of a TN treeing brindle, I'll have to look it up sometime.

Quick Steel wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 2:31 pm LA, There is lots of resemblance. And there is another resemblance.

I have seen paintings of English Bulldogs from the 18th and 19th century. Yours look very similar. I know English Bulldogs are very popular today but the breeders, in my view, have ruined them. No English Bulldog today can be born naturally. They have become so distorted that they are all born by the Caesarian section. They are saddled as well with breathing difficulties. From the lean muscular dogs of yore, we now have strong marshmallows.

Strong marshmallows.

Dan In MI wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 5:16 am Ken's experiences with dogs differ from mine. The black Lab mix I had in high school hated being wet. If he was in the backyard, and someone turned the garden hose on, he sprinted away in no time flat! My maternal grandparents had a Yorkie who left little "gifts" all over the house. However, I'm pretty sure my Little Dudette is part Yorkie, and she has no such issues. Maybe my dogs got the best (or worst) genes of their ancestors. Dog behavior is a strange thing, that's for sure!

You made my point. Purebred dogs, from the right breeder and bloodline, have genes/traits that have been distilled into their genetics over generations, giving them the tendencies and inclination to do what they were bred to do. Your “Lab mix” may have had some of those genes, but they were possibly recessive, or perhaps the innate tendencies were repressed.

Nothing against mixed breed dogs - they make wonderful pets and occasionally some will excel at working dog tasks, performing as well as purebreds. But it’s a crapshoot whether they will or not, or their offspring also will. The best breeders selectively breed only the best dogs having the traits for which their respective breeds are sought and prized. Unfortunately “backyard” breeders and puppy mills have diluted the gene pool of many breeds, and especially popular breeds. Then people wonder why their registered Lab won’t retrieve, doesn’t like water, etc. Or their pit pull dog attacked the neighbor. And so on. Less popular breeds, like Great Pyrenees, Akbash and others typically used today almost exclusively for tasks for which the breed breed was developed, retain stronger, less diluted gene pools. In those breeds you’re more likely to get a dog exhibiting those traits.

It only takes one or two generations for the offspring from a great dog having an impeccable pedigree to be ruined by breeding to other dogs who may look nice but don’t have the good genetic traits. Those offspring have become a crapshoot as to how they’ll perform. We’ve all heard anecdotes about someone’s dog who despite having paid a fortune for it, won’t retrieve, runs from gunfire, etc and the mutt from the pound that is the best hunting dog ever seen. Those things can and do happen. They’re the exception rather than the rule, which is why those stories are interesting and get told and retold.

If you’re a serious hunter of birds, rabbits, etc or need a guide dog, service dog, livestock or personal protection dog, whatever the task, do your research and spend the money and effort to buy and train the dog. Even the best need training to bring out and reinforce those inbred traits. There’s a reason why some breeds are preferred for those tasks instead of mixed breed mutts or other breeds. If you just need a family pet which is what most want, you can get a great one from the pound or animal rescue group. It may also turn out to be a good rabbit dog or farm protection dog. But don’t count on it.

Ken

Very well thought out and presented.