All About Pocket Knives

KJ, that is a whole lot of information on Sears knives alone. I started going through this thread (again) from page 1 and I'm currently up to page 20 to see if anyone has posted photos of a knife like the one described. I tried a google search for Sears & Craftsman whittlers with different wording but it requires percise information. Without a model number all I get is knives of all brands. I'll keep trying here, there and other sites. I'll post a photo if I find it. Thanks, KJ!

"Did Sears have a version of the 72 in bone with the sabre grind on both sides and with the coping & pen opposite the main blade"
What you describe is a true whittler: a 2 spring, 3 blade knife in which the master blade bears on both springs.
The Sta-Sharp "Wood Carver" 9511 is what you describe but with plastic handles.
The 9529 is also close but only has one side saber grind.
It is possible that either of these numbers could have been used on a knife set up as you describe above, but it could also have it's own number.
My bet is that this knife exists. I will keep looking.
kj

kootenay joe wrote:"Did Sears have a version of the 72 in bone with the sabre grind on both sides and with the coping & pen opposite the main blade"
What you describe is a true whittler: a 2 spring, 3 blade knife in which the master blade bears on both springs.
The Sta-Sharp "Wood Carver" 9511 is what you describe but with plastic handles.
The 9529 is also close but only has one side saber grind.
It is possible that either of these numbers could have been used on a knife set up as you describe above, but it could also have it's own number.
My bet is that this knife exists. I will keep looking.
kj

KJ, the thought of a true whittler with the split spring did cross my mind but the few I've seen have a smaller clip and wharncliffe opposite the main with no long pull & match striker. Below is one that's presently up on eBay for $175.00 + $5 shipping.

The Sta-sharp 9511 is bone (Rogers bone to me). It's Jerry's and is on page 108. The blade configuration is 1st gen., with the pen alongside the main and coping blade on the back end. I'm curious if the split spring has a stronger snap on the main because it's thicker on that side?

PS: I'm still not completely convinced that the nail nicks and other things (as described on my other post) do not point to other cutleries on your bone knives on page 108. Did they say on a Sears catalog that they were made by Camillus?

When merchants (e.g. Sears, Wards, etc.) sold knives with there own name as the brand, they never said who actually made them. For some reason they wanted it kept secret.
However much of the history of Albert Baer is known. He worked for Kastor the then owner of Camillus and it was he (Baer) who brought the Sears contract to Camillus where it stayed for about 20 years. "Contract", Sears could not go to other companies for knives. Contract price and Camillus supplies them all. But, did Camillus sub contract out to other companies for some knife runs ? Maybe. Knife companies also kept contracting out secret.
"Split spring" or "split backspring" are commonly used before the word "whittler" but should NOT be. A true split spring whittler is a one spring knife. The forged spring is then cut lengthwise for about half it's length. This has not been done for about 150 years.
Yes the snap is supposed to be more firm on the master blade of a whittler. It's your 'power' blade and you don't want it to come off the fully open position easily.
The blade above you refer to as "Wharncliffe" is a poorly sharpened pen blade. That knife has been buffed. i would not buy it for even $50.
My 9511 is a Whittler but with black plastic handles.
Jerry's 9511 is not a whittler and has i think plastic handles, not bone. Jerry could you comment on this please ?
Very odd they both have the same Sears #.
kj

Kj, I'm learning; slowly but learning nonetheless. Thank you for the lessons and for your patience, my friend.

kootenay joe wrote: Jerry's 9511 is not a whittler and has i think plastic handles, not bone. Jerry could you comment on this please ?
kj

I never claimed my 9511 to be a true whittler (but it is a Carpenter's Whittler - Camillus label) nor have I claimed it has bone handles. They are obviously synthetic.

Thanks Jerry. I just wanted to be certain. Another member referred to what i believe to be that knife as having bone handles.
I referred to your 9511 as "not a whittler" as i was comparing it to my 9511 that is set up as a whittler and it is odd to see same Sears # on different knives. My post was not in reference to anything you had said.
I have other Craftsman Sta-Sharp knives with the same ugly plastic. I think it was only used briefly, but it is on their top of the line knives so perhaps it was seen as 'fancy', 'better than bone' ?
kj

Black synthetic short line came yesterday. It's in pretty good condition. The coping blade has seen a bit of use but all three blades have good snap and the handles are solid.

Here is my "Not A 72" but looks like one, unmarked, 3 5/8" knife with bird on shield that resembles old Kissing Crane mark.
kj

I've seen that bird although I don't recall in what context (it wasn't Kissing Cranes). The knife is a German clone or my call sign isn't KEK-5453.

German, yes definitely, but "clone" ? this pattern might have been made in Germany before Camillus first made the 72 pattern.
It is also possible that this pattern did originate in USA.
kj

Yes, clone. Look inside the blade well and tell me how those synthetic handles are held on. Prong, post or glued?

kootenay joe wrote:Here is my "Not A 72" but looks like one, unmarked, 3 5/8" knife with bird on shield that resembles old Kissing Crane mark.
kj

Your knife looks like a Pakistan special.
I have one .

Grant

Shearer wrote:Your knife looks like a Pakistan special.
I have one .

That is the initial impression I got from that weird 'zig-zag' match-strike pull and the light scoring of the bird in the shield, but those could both be tricks of the light and I would generally trust kj to know if a knife is an Asia Special when he gets it. The master blade looks all wrong though IMO.

So far I haven't even gotten my hands on a Schrade 863 or an Ulster "clone", all mine are Camillus-branded or Camillus-built. So YMMV of course.

I gotta tell ya, it's been slim pickens on ebay here lately. Maybe we have them all. We may justhave to start swapping amongst ourselves.

Tsar Bomba wrote: So far I haven't even gotten my hands on a Schrade 863 or an Ulster "clone", all mine are Camillus-branded or Camillus-built. So YMMV of course.

There's currently a Schrade USA 863 on eBay. Looks to be in very decent condition. You'll have to make up your own mind about the price, keeping in mind that for some reason the Schrades go for more than the Camillus 72s.

My "Not A 72" does not feel like a Pakistan knife. It feels like the lower end German knives that were imported en mass in early 1950's. Later on Puma and other better German brands began to get imported and the low end German ones disappeared from the market(replaced by even lower end Japanese knives).
The handles show 2 big round posts per side flush with inside of liner. I cannot see a pin for the shield. Are handles with posts for attaching diagnostic of a time period or country ?
kj

Quote: "So far I haven't even gotten my hands on a Schrade 863 "

Ya mean like this:
The Schrade-Walden with pattern # on the back has bone handles
The Schrade-Walden with jigged black handles has no pattern # on back tang making it to likely be the older of the two. Schrade Cut Co.'s were not marked with pattern #'s and it took a few years after becoming Schrade-Walden in 1947 before pattern # markings began to show up. During the early Schrade Walden days i believe bone was more used than synthetic. These black handles sound like bone when i tap it against my teeth.
kj

There's a Schrade N.Y. U.S.A. 863 here: https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/ca ... illus%2072 For $17 more but this one has a long pull and no cracks on Delrin cover(s). Both in "unused condition" but this one comes with the original tube and has a slight stamp difference - N.Y. U.S.A. -vs- U.S.A. only. IMO, If it had Walden N.Y. even better.

I agree with Jerry. Why would a Schrade 863 be more expensive than a Camillus 72? The only thing that I can think of is that Schrade was/is more popular. Especially when they introduced their knives with the Old Timer shield, slogan and the "unbreakable" lifetime guarantee. That was a great marketing strategy. Even none knife people know of Old Timer knives but never heard of Schrade.

IMO, the later model Schrades -- like Camillus...& other cutleries -- dropped in quality through the years, and so the earlier knives were better built. That's been my experience.

kootenay joe wrote:My "Not A 72" does not feel like a Pakistan knife. It feels like the lower end German knives that were imported en mass in early 1950's. Later on Puma and other better German brands began to get imported and the low end German ones disappeared from the market(replaced by even lower end Japanese knives).
The handles show 2 big round posts per side flush with inside of liner. I cannot see a pin for the shield. Are handles with posts for attaching diagnostic of a time period or country ?
kj

Can't speak for that knife but Camillus stopped pinning the handles and started using the post method in 1977.

Jerry, my knife looks to have the same handle 'posts' ! Could my knife actually be a Camillus ??
I wonder if this post method of attaching handles to liners is patented ? If not then likely other companies copied it, or maybe Camillus was copying an earlier version of the same ?
kj

kootenay joe wrote:Jerry, my knife looks to have the same handle 'posts' ! Could my knife actually be a Camillus ??

No. For two obvious reasons. The "teeth" in the Camillus match strike pull, are cleanly stamped, sharp pointed and clearly defined. On that knife they are not. The second reason is also quite clear. I have never seen a Camillus that didn't have the rocker pin showing. That knife does not.

kootenay joe wrote:I wonder if this post method of attaching handles to liners is patented ? If not then likely other companies copied it, or maybe Camillus was copying an earlier version of the same ?
kj

I have no idea if it's patented or not and I doubt that Camillus was copying an earlier version, especially one of their own. Before they started using the post method of attaching handles, they either pinned the handles on or for early synthetic handles and up into the 1960s, used the prong construction.

gsmith7158 wrote:I gotta tell ya, it's been slim pickens on ebay here lately. Maybe we have them all. We may justhave to start swapping amongst ourselves.

...greg, are you looking for a particular knife??..I may have one that will "fling a cravin' on you"!!!!...... ........

carrmillus wrote:

gsmith7158 wrote:I gotta tell ya, it's been slim pickens on ebay here lately. Maybe we have them all. We may justhave to start swapping amongst ourselves.

...greg, are you looking for a particular knife??..I may have one that will "fling a cravin' on you"!!!!...... ........

Tommy I'm looking for bone handled variations of the 72. In particular the Wildlife Federation Ducks on the Water, The bone handle boy scout with the etch on the blade and any other bone handle that I don't know about. And of course I would take a first gen in unused mint condition. Hope I'm not being greedy here. Of course a Bone handle Schrade 863 Kon-Kav would also be acceptable. Anybody that' got em just send em on down here to Georgia.

Hey Jerry, Thanks, i did not know about 'prongs'. Are these prongs a piece of the liner that is folded up 90 degrees ?
kj