All About Pocket Knives

Doc B wrote:I too, just got mine...and am very happy with the stag. My only critique of this knife...I contemplated actually getting this knife, as a user, for whittling, thinking the awl would be good for fine detail. Sadly, the awl is so thin and flexible...I'm certain it would break, with any substantial use.
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Very nice stag Doc, congrats.

I am surprised to hear the punch is flexible. Even if thin i think it 'should' be rigid. But maybe not ?
kj

kootenay joe wrote:I am surprised to hear the punch is flexible. Even if thin i think it 'should' be rigid. But maybe not ?
kj

I'd be interested to hear others perception of the awl. I can flex it with my finger. It does thin down and is very sharp. I have no doubt it would puncture leather quite well. I'd be afraid to put much force, in to wood.

It's flexy but with care did a fine job in this old pine 2x4.

kootenay joe wrote:And "split spring whittler", is a one spring knife and these have not been made for about 150 years. I have been on the look out for one of these 'forever' but have yet to see one for sale. They are very rare.
kj

...........just looked at all 5 of my old Camillus whittlers, all are double spring with brass(4) and steel(1) tapered spacers!!......... ..........................

carrmillus wrote:

kootenay joe wrote:And "split spring whittler", is a one spring knife and these have not been made for about 150 years. I have been on the look out for one of these 'forever' but have yet to see one for sale. They are very rare.
kj

...........just looked at all 5 of my old Camillus whittlers, all are double spring with brass(4) and steel(1) tapered spacers!!......... ..........................

I also have been searching for one of those true split springs but to no avail. As near as I can reckon I believe most of them are very old ,probably before 1860.

Doc B wrote:

kootenay joe wrote:I am surprised to hear the punch is flexible. Even if thin i think it 'should' be rigid. But maybe not ?
kj

I'd be interested to hear others perception of the awl. I can flex it with my finger. It does thin down and is very sharp. I have no doubt it would puncture leather quite well. I'd be afraid to put much force, in to wood.

It will peel paint off any wood surface with ease. Its great for light finesse shaving. I use the point all the time. Its sharp while at the same time being slightly rounded at the tip. I use the tip alot without fear of messing up a blade point.

My bloodwood came today...
Bill Howard/GEC really came through on this one. Perty much a perfect knife. A little smaller then I thought it would be, but is a big plus. Fits my large hands perfectly, and blades are the perfect size too. All in all I couldn't be more pleased. And I picked it in the first round ($20 cheaper... ).

I don't have one of the GEC 29's so can't comment on them, but recently made knives I've seen have similar relatively thin awl (punch) blades. Not nearly as substantial as the old ones which typically had a reinforced spine. Much more substantial, but even on those it's not unusual to see one that has been "tipped". Likely from being used as a pry or pick rather than a leather punch.

Whereas the older ones were "rolled" such that they had a reinforcing spine - undoubtedly more expensive to make and required tooling designed for the purpose. I suspect the more recently made punch blades are made that way because they can easily be stamped from standard steel blade stock. And they're less likely to be actually used.

Ken

I've always thought that an awl was for making holes in leather. Used in such a manner will last forever. Any tool which is used to drill wood is going to wear out or break sooner than later.
Outstanding knives shown, looking forward to receiving my stag.

Mumbleypeg wrote:I don't have one of the GEC 29's so can't comment on them, but recently made knives I've seen have similar relatively thin awl (punch) blades. Not nearly as substantial as the old ones which typically had a reinforced spine. Much more substantial, but even on those it's not unusual to see one that has been "tipped". Likely from being used as a pry or pick rather than a leather punch.

Whereas the older ones were "rolled" such that they had a reinforcing spine - undoubtedly more expensive to make and required tooling designed for the purpose. I suspect the more recently made punch blades are made that way because they can easily be stamped from standard steel blade stock. And they're less likely to be actually used.

Ken

Ken, maybe I'm misunderstanding but the punch on the 29 does have a roll to it, it is not flat. the roll has a sharp edge that removes material well when turned clockwise. Well designed punch in my opinion.

gsmith7158 wrote:

carrmillus wrote:

kootenay joe wrote:And "split spring whittler", is a one spring knife and these have not been made for about 150 years. I have been on the look out for one of these 'forever' but have yet to see one for sale. They are very rare.
kj

...........just looked at all 5 of my old Camillus whittlers, all are double spring with brass(4) and steel(1) tapered spacers!!......... ..........................

I also have been searching for one of those true split springs but to no avail. As near as I can reckon I believe most of them are very old ,probably before 1860.

...........greg, at least I can say I have had one in my hand!!.....my grandpa let me whittle with his when I was a kid!!, I would trade all of mine for the one he had!!.......... .................

Just as there are many blade patterns (clip, sheepsfoot, etc.---), there are also many awl patterns. When horses were the main mode of transportation, the awl (aka "punch") was an important tool to have with you. Many of the old USA knife manufacturers designed their own awl.
Charlie Campagna has had 10 different Harness jacks made over about the last 15 years. I believe each one has a different awl pattern and the patterns are all copies of vintage USA awls. On one of them the manufacturer (Queen, i think) said the awl was so difficult to make and get it 'right', that they would never make it again.
Ken says: " they can easily be stamped from standard steel blade stock." They might be stamped out, but after this there is grinding, sharpening & polishing all done with the same care and attention as the other blades.
The GEC knives i have with an awl (98 & 35) have the sharpest edge and pointiest tip of any awls i have owned (quite a few).
I made some extra belt holes to accommodate my expanding waist and i was amazed how both these awls cut through thick leather almost as if you were just rotating the awl in the air. Very impressive.
I can get a small amount of flex with a strong lateral pressure. The same is true for the other blades so i would not call it "flexy".
I wonder about tempering. Is an awl tempered to the same hardness as the blades ? Rc ~ 58. Or are they tempered a bit softer so they will have some flex ?
Anyone know about this ?
kj

Roland, when I said they can easily be stamped from standard blade stock, I was referring to the modern-day versions I have seen. These appear to be regular blades stamped, or ground, to a point. Apparently the GEC 29 is at least a little more substantial.

However based on the descriptions that it is "flexible", it wouldn't seem to be as substantial as the punch blades found on older knives. As you know, those were quite rigid and strong especially when used for their intended purposes (not as pry bars).

Ken

The 10 Harness jacks Charlie had made (Queen & GEC) have awls are as good and sometimes better, than those on vintage USA Harness Jacks. They are copies of the vintage awls with effort made to reproduce the design exactly. I say "better" because the steel used for knife blades has improved over the last 100 years.
Rather than the old being more substantial than the new, i think flex has to do with the pattern of the awl. Some awl patterns are more rigid than others, whether vintage or new.
GEC has made 4 patterns that have an awl: #'s 29, 35, 77 & 98. If you don't have one of these and if you like having an awl on your knife, i urge you to get one. You will not be disappointed with the knife or the awl. Each has a different pattern awl.
kj

kootenay joe wrote:The 10 Harness jacks Charlie had made (Queen & GEC) have awls are as good and sometimes better, than those on vintage USA Harness Jacks. They are copies of the vintage awls with effort made to reproduce the design exactly. I say "better" because the steel used for knife blades has improved over the last 100 years.
Rather than the old being more substantial than the new, i think flex has to do with the pattern of the awl. Some awl patterns are more rigid than others, whether vintage or new.
GEC has made 4 patterns that have an awl: #'s 29, 35, 77 & 98. If you don't have one of these and if you like having an awl on your knife, i urge you to get one. You will not be disappointed with the knife or the awl. Each has a different pattern awl.
kj

Don't forget the #57. If memory serves me right the punch on it is almost if not identical to the #29. I'll have to compare them when I get home.

I also have a harness jack on the 54 frame..

Oh dear, i need to study up on the GEC patterns. More have awls than i was aware of. I have an example of the each of the 4 patterns i mentioned. Now i might have to look for these other ones.
kj

Plus the 15 Doamond Jack, 66 Teamster Jack, 85 Real Harness Jack and 85 hj (different awls),

As i have posted before, the slow internet speed in my area makes scoring one of the 'hot' GEC knives almost impossible. Mark (sharpnshinyknives), volunteered to try to get a Stag #29 for me. He scored 2 of them, both very nice but one does have more impressive looking Stag. He sent me the 29 with the 'better' Stag saying he wanted me to have "the best one". The Stag is deeply furrowed and because of this the Stag slabs have to be a certain thickness. They cannot be as thin as Stag with shallow furrows. But it is not "Fat Stag". Visually and in hand it is "Just Right Stag".
I have had a number of dealings with Mark and he is a most generous man. Thank you Mark.
kj

kootenay joe wrote:As i have posted before, the slow internet speed in my area makes scoring one of the 'hot' GEC knives almost impossible. Mark (sharpnshinyknives), volunteered to try to get a Stag #29 for me. He scored 2 of them, both very nice but one does have more impressive looking Stag. He sent me the 29 with the 'better' Stag saying he wanted me to have "the best one". The Stag is deeply furrowed and because of this the Stag slabs have to be a certain thickness. They cannot be as thin as Stag with shallow furrows. But it is not "Fat Stag". Visually and in hand it is "Just Right Stag".
I have had a number of dealings with Mark and he is a most generous man. Thank you Mark.
kj

Ooohhh, nice! Great score. My blood red one has become hard not to carry, you're gonna love it.

Thank you rotten. I do plan to pocket it and use it. I think it will look even better in 10 years time as the Stag edges round off and the blades marked up from use.
I see this pattern as close to ideal for outdoor use. The Clip & Sheepsfoot blades are both useful and compliment each other well. And the long pointy awl is great for poking things. It is too good to not use.
kj

I agree with you fellers. Perty much the perfect using knife, these are (paraphrasing Master Yoda ). My bloodwood is super nice, beautiful grain and coloring. A little smaller framed, so perfect size in my large hand. Blade spacing/centering is perfect on mine. The main blade is perfectly shaped, when me hand grips it, thumb automatically rides spine of blade, just a perfect overall hand feel to this one.

"SURPRISE ! SURPRISE ! SURPRISE !" I was watch GEC videos on You-Tube yesterday. American Whittler SFO#29 Stockyard Whittler in "orange amber" bone. Very hush-hush and limited !

My Smooth Orange Bone 29. Probably my favorite of the bunch!