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Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:07 am
by Jacknifeben
No NAPANOCH. This is a JACK KNIFE BEN from UNION STOCK YARDS CHICAGO. There is a lot of history about this man BENJAMIN CHON started selling knives at the stock yards before 1900 to all of farmers when they would bring their live stock in. All of the knives were on contract from different cutlery companies. There are some articles on web sites. Through the years I have ended up with an extensive collection with three Winchester’s and ten Jack Knife Bens with the Carmen punch. Plus about 80 from different cutlery co. With the Jack Knife Ben and Jack Knife Shop stamp.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:33 pm
by JAMESC41001
I read some history and your right it is a great story for sure. Love to see a better pick of your knife there if possible. Also I recall seeing a pat pending punch on a winchester somewhere. Do any of your Winchester’s have pat pending on them? Thanks for the info on Jack Knife Ben.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:46 pm
by RalphAlsip
This is a Jack Knife Ben cattle knife that I think was made by Napanoch. Am I right? I highlighted the stamps and cleaned up the Pat'd stamp to make it easier to read.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:08 pm
by JAMESC41001
I believe it is Napanoch. Weather it was made in NY or Connecticut I can’t say. Here are pics from Rhett Stidam’s book. It is shown twice. Only difference I see is the price and the language regarding the punch. Probably before and after the patent being awarded.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:16 pm
by JAMESC41001
Actually looking closer your blades are configured differently. Here is a winchester from the 1926-27 catalog for comparison.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:29 pm
by Jacknifeben
Here are some better pictures of the Carmen punch blade knife and another NAPANOCH with different blade setup. Thanks for the comments.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:01 pm
by JAMESC41001
That’s interesting. Your knife and Ralph’s knife are configured that same only yours is pat applied for and his is patented. The catalog pics are likely from are later date.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:37 pm
by Jacknifeben
I have a lot of PAT’D 4/7/08 with the CARMEN punch, most of them are JACK KNIFE BEN and some Winchester tang stamped the same way. It has been a long journey.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:42 pm
by Jacknifeben
Old JACK KNIFE BEN
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:02 am
by FRJ
Those are beautiful knives, Jacknifeben and a nice card.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:37 am
by knifegnome
Hi James,these are the three Honk Falls knives I have.The pearl is 3 1/4" long,the whittler is 3 1/4" and the dogleg is 3 3/8".
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:44 am
by JAMESC41001
That card is really cool. Harder to find then the knives I bet. Great knives you posted here. Never get tired of seeing knives like that. Thanks for showing them.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:46 am
by JAMESC41001
Holy cow Knifenome! Those are off the Hook!!!!
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:43 am
by LongBlade
JAMESC41001 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:59 am
Some research on the Napanoch punch. This pic was printed from a glass plate negative circa 1915. 44CC7212-3323-4D1C-9820-DC4328DBB01D.jpeg
Napanoch knife began making knives in 1900. The application for a patent for the punch was filed 1907 and awarded in 1908.800670A3-C19B-4B45-8AC7-C2F1181E559A.jpegA91A642F-8113-46AD-B7D0-2D2D068F19DB.jpeg
By 1919 Napanoch was sold to Winchester. Winchester continued to make knives under both the winchester and Napanoch name. Some Winchester knives have the distinctive punch and some do not. By 1921 some ex Napanoch employees set up shop in the old Napanoch factory under the name Honk Falls Knife. By 1925 all three companies were listed as manufacturing pocket knives.813EA306-DC2E-4202-B42F-122A171FD484.jpeg
In 1929 the Honk falls factory was destroyed by fire but Honk falls knives continued to be manufactured in Napanoch in a different location. When Winchester went into receivership the Naponoch name and the intellectual property ie the patents and trademarks came with it. The owner of Honk Falls, John Cushner began making Napanoch marked knives in Napanoch once again. 8C12EC2C-E32F-4F48-A1E9-BBA80BD2963E.jpeg
Of the half dozen Honk Falls knives I’ve seen with punches none have the distinctive Napanoch punch and I do not recall ever seeing and Napanoch knives that did not have the distinctive punch. A822FE15-73C8-4C20-B842-C9C544E18AE1.jpegE06F4E98-4FFF-4F57-86A0-A7042E10EBFA.jpeg
These are two of my Honk falls. I think it’s likely Winchester used existing inventory until the supply ran out. What happened to this specialized piece of equipment is not known but it does not appear to fit into the “production line” style of manufacture winchester was moving towards and may not be suited to pressing out with a press or drop hammer. It appears after the sale to Winchester these punches were never again made in Nappanoch. This may or may not be an accurate statement but I put it out there in an effort to get input from others who can add to this research. As an interesting piece of info this was posted in the Winchester thread here. The knife pictured is very similar to the scout ive shown here with a Honk stamp. 6478B3A1-4E22-4B39-8278-B033B62CC63B.jpeg
Informative and interesting Jay
- Thanks for sharing it!
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:44 am
by LongBlade
knifegnome wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:37 am
Hi James,these are the three Honk Falls knives I have.The pearl is 3 1/4" long,the whittler is 3 1/4" and the dogleg is 3 3/8".
Beautiful Honk Falls knives Scott
... That whittler is sweet
...
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:50 pm
by JAMESC41001
Interesting knife displayed at the Wawarsing Museum.
I’ll will post it here first since it is part of my research regarding Honk Falls. My understanding is that Marbles contracted out almost all of there folding knives. I’ve read that Case was involved at some level although there is little information about this. I’m thinking this may be a very early example of the safety knife. From my reading W.R Case and sons officially incorporated in 1900 and started out as a jobber. Napanoch started making knives for them and Crandall right from the beginning. The safety knife was awarded the patent in 1903 but was being made earlier. This add showing Case doing business in Napanoch is from 1903 so the timing seems to be correct.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:00 am
by cbfd
Very nice,I would think that is a rare knife,maybe an extremely rare knife! ( the safety folder)
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:38 pm
by btrwtr
This Marble's safety type folder would be a post WWI knife.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:29 pm
by JAMESC41001
Thanks Wayne. What are the distinguishing parts?
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:43 pm
by btrwtr
Not so much distinguishing parts as order of production of the safety folders. It is generally accepted that this style of safety folder was introduced after WWI. This style folder was not made with a prior to 1911 MSA stamp.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:16 am
by JAMESC41001
Sorry Wayne I’m easily confused. The patent pictured here is dated 1903 on looks much the same as the safety knife I posted. What makes it post WW1?
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:17 am
by JAMESC41001
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:48 pm
by btrwtr
JAMESC41001 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:16 am
Sorry Wayne I’m easily confused. The patent pictured here is dated 1903 on looks much the same as the safety knife I posted. What makes it post WW1?
Smaller size 4 1/4", double full bolsters, straight folding hilt, nail nick in the folding blade guard and stag handle. These are all standard on a post WWI safety folder.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:01 pm
by JAMESC41001
Thanks Wayne. I appreciate the info. I don’t own one of these safety folders but I wish I did.
Re: Honk Falls Knife Co. 1921-1929
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:34 pm
by JAMESC41001