Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

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XX Case XX
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Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by XX Case XX » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:13 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topst ... plocalnews

Arizona's looking really good about now...

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Doc B » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:17 pm

Maybe I'll celebrate with a new pickup and AR that year.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by XX Case XX » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:19 pm

Doc B wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:17 pm
Maybe I'll celebrate with a new pickup and AR that year.
::rotflol:: ::rotflol::

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Railsplitter » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:20 pm

That's what I was thinking. Maybe I'll buy a brand new car the year before and it will last me the rest of my life. Hopefully not but I can prolong it as long as possible.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:47 pm

I think I will set up a car dealership just across the border in a neighboring state to sell cars to CA residents who don’t want to comply.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by New_Windsor_NY » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:13 pm

XX Case XX wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:13 pm
Arizona's looking really good about now...
I'm amazed that people are surprised by this or find this "odd." This is par for the course.
::barf:: ::barf::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Doc B » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:58 pm

I'm assuming since it says passenger cars...trucks will be exempt. I don't see how electric could meet the needs of the huge numbers of farmers, ranchers, construction folk that require 3/4 trucks, to haul their big trailers around. So, for those that can't afford a $60,000 truck...the others will be stuck with a $35,000 electric thing, that has to be plugged in somewhere. I'm guessing the emission savings will be offset by the number of folks that will driving big trucks around, to avoid forced electricity. Skip, I don't find it odd, at all. As you say...par for California. My wife is from northern CA. She likes to say..."where the fruits and nuts are grown...not, where they live."
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 pm

That's OK, by 2035 there won't be anywhere worth going...
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by zzyzzogeton » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:52 pm

Doc B wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:58 pm
I'm assuming since it says passenger cars...trucks will be exempt. I don't see how electric could meet the needs of the huge numbers of farmers, ranchers, construction folk that require 3/4 trucks, to haul their big trailers around. So, for those that can't afford a $60,000 truck...the others will be stuck with a $35,000 electric thing, that has to be plugged in somewhere. I'm guessing the emission savings will be offset by the number of folks that will driving big trucks around, to avoid forced electricity. Skip, I don't find it odd, at all. As you say...par for California. My wife is from northern CA. She likes to say..."where the fruits and nuts are grown...not, where they live."
If you read down through the article linked above, it says that "medium and heavy duty vehicles will be emission free by 2045".

One of the problems with all this "emission free electric vehicle" crap is that no electric vehicle will ever have the range of a fossil fueled vehicle, nor will they be "refuelable" quickly. Even Tesla's tech will only get about a 300 mile range (370 on the Long Distance model) and takes 1 to 2 days to recharge at home on 110v and 5 to 12 hours with a 240v charger. A supercharger model charger will recharge a Tesla in 30 minutes to an hour. How long will you have to wait to get hooked up?

Want to control the people? Don't let them be able to go anywhere fast. It will take people up to 9 days to drive across Texas. Assuming you can find a charger somewhere between Ft Stockton and El Paso that is open at night.

Another set of problems - environmental waste from producing the batteries, recycling the batteries, getting rare earth elements needed for the electronics from China (primary source of most of them).

If they can't make the cars, you can't buy one, so you can't go anywhere and are dependent on the government to provide you with transportation.

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:57 pm

So California is experiencing black outs because of the green energy mandates. They are shuttering gas power plants and won’t let a nuclear plant be built so there isn’t enough power now. So as CA moves more and more green, they want to add millions and millions of cars that need to be charged every day from this energy source that isn’t keeping up with demand now. Does anyone else see the insanity of this? The people of CA will be absolutely bleed dry from high priced electricity in the future. I guess you get the government you voted for. Good luck.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Gunsil » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:58 pm

I have no idea what you guys have a problem with here. If they have batteries that can power a car or pick-up truck for a thousand mile drive who cares? The world will run out of oil and gasoline sooner or later and electric cars can easily be much more powerful than internal combustion engine vehicles. Plenty of modern electric cars can do 0-60 under 3.5 seconds with top speeds over 160 MPH. They are more quiet to drive, have all amenities, and plenty of power, what's not to like? Right now the only drawback is travel distance between charges, if they solve that one it is a no-brainer that they will be better. By the way, I was a Porsche master mechanic most of my life and a motor head, but if there is more power and better handling to be had I say bring it on!! Ford already has electric pick-ups and check out Rivian Company, looks like they're making a cool pick-up. Grow up, stop whining, and get with the times guys!! Y'all sound like the folks who complained when gas powered cars replaced horse and buggies.

Sharp and shiny, what the heck are you talking about charging every day? Many folks don't drive more than ten miles a day and right now most electrics get 250 miles per charge, which means they would only need a charge every twenty days, if your driver did twenty miles a day they would only have to charge every ten days. I think they will likely have the technology to go a thousand miles by 2035, making the argument moot. I like to drive, own a classic Porsche, but I like to drive cross country too, doing 6-700 miles a day, so right now I have no use for an EV, but if they make one that will go a thousand miles and charge in a few hours while sleeping, bring it on!!

What scares me more are self driving cars. When all cars are self driving they will know the speed limit and you won't be able to go any faster than the limit and you will be tracked all the time. THIS is a problem to me, and it too is coming.

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by bladeguy58 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:03 am

Yeah and ever scarier is I'm gonna bet that in 4 years he's gonna run for President! ::facepalm::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:26 am

Gunsil wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:58 pm
I have no idea what you guys have a problem with here. If they have batteries that can power a car or pick-up truck for a thousand mile drive who cares? The world will run out of oil and gasoline sooner or later and electric cars can easily be much more powerful than internal combustion engine vehicles. Plenty of modern electric cars can do 0-60 under 3.5 seconds with top speeds over 160 MPH. They are more quiet to drive, have all amenities, and plenty of power, what's not to like? Right now the only drawback is travel distance between charges, if they solve that one it is a no-brainer that they will be better. By the way, I was a Porsche master mechanic most of my life and a motor head, but if there is more power and better handling to be had I say bring it on!! Ford already has electric pick-ups and check out Rivian Company, looks like they're making a cool pick-up. Grow up, stop whining, and get with the times guys!! Y'all sound like the folks who complained when gas powered cars replaced horse and buggies.

Sharp and shiny, what the heck are you talking about charging every day? Many folks don't drive more than ten miles a day and right now most electrics get 250 miles per charge, which means they would only need a charge every twenty days, if your driver did twenty miles a day they would only have to charge every ten days. I think they will likely have the technology to go a thousand miles by 2035, making the argument moot. I like to drive, own a classic Porsche, but I like to drive cross country too, doing 6-700 miles a day, so right now I have no use for an EV, but if they make one that will go a thousand miles and charge in a few hours while sleeping, bring it on!!

Has anyone done the math on the electric usage? I agree not everyone needs to charge every day, but there will be millions of people plugging in their cars every day that aren’t doing that now, so it’s going to strain the system, which is already straining under 40% of the power coming from wind and solar. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see the problem that’s coming. The battery technology may never deliver the kind of range that they will need in a country that is thousands of miles from border to border. I’ve been hearing the promise of this mind blowing range for batteries for over 20 years. Believe me I have looked into a lot. I had clients trying to figure out how to make money investing in this great battery technology for over 20 years and it doesn’t exist. If you have insight into something new, please inform me.

Edit. Sorry I messed up this post. I didn’t realize I was posting in the middle of your post.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Mumbleypeg » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:53 am

Gunsil wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:58 pm
I have no idea what you guys have a problem with here. If they have batteries that can power a car or pick-up truck for a thousand mile drive who cares? The world will run out of oil and gasoline sooner or later and electric cars can easily be much more powerful than internal combustion engine vehicles. Plenty of modern electric cars can do 0-60 under 3.5 seconds with top speeds over 160 MPH. They are more quiet to drive, have all amenities, and plenty of power, what's not to like? Right now the only drawback is travel distance between charges, if they solve that one it is a no-brainer that they will be better. By the way, I was a Porsche master mechanic most of my life and a motor head, but if there is more power and better handling to be had I say bring it on!! Ford already has electric pick-ups and check out Rivian Company, looks like they're making a cool pick-up. Grow up, stop whining, and get with the times guys!! Y'all sound like the folks who complained when gas powered cars replaced horse and buggies.

Sharp and shiny, what the heck are you talking about charging every day? Many folks don't drive more than ten miles a day and right now most electrics get 250 miles per charge, which means they would only need a charge every twenty days, if your driver did twenty miles a day they would only have to charge every ten days. I think they will likely have the technology to go a thousand miles by 2035, making the argument moot. I like to drive, own a classic Porsche, but I like to drive cross country too, doing 6-700 miles a day, so right now I have no use for an EV, but if they make one that will go a thousand miles and charge in a few hours while sleeping, bring it on!!
Assuming all that is true, then the free market will drive the conversion to electric vehicles, just as it did the conversion from horse and buggy to gasoline powered transportation. We don’t need any grandstanding moron politician edicting the change. ::barf::

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by cody6268 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:19 am

In my opinion wiht goverment officials--I think the best way to prove they are truly incompetent and unfit for the job is to pass expensive, extensive, and nearly impossible to implement policies that are wholly unworkable. We've seen it with the Green New Deal, and then this thing. I'm not even getting into my views that global warming is intentionally overhyped and made to sound more extreme than it really is(I follow the Dyson view) and models are exaggerated. Remember all of Al Gore's claims about NYC being under water?

In my opinion, as things are now changing with tech at an incredibly fast pace, and as battery and charging tech research is evolving constantly, we will see electric cars far superior to ICE vehicles. But not right now. One, charging infrastructure isn't that good. First (and still only almost ten years later) charging stations I have seen are an hour and a half from my place.

The real problem is the power grid. They want to get rid of nuclear and all fossil fuels. The renewable sources don't output nearly as much. When you switch all the cars over to electric, that's going to put even more stress on the grid. This is why I say hydrogen is a better alternative. Number two is depreciation. Batteries wear out with age due to the laws of science and thermodynamics and entropy. My great-aunt got a huge discount on a 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Hybrid that was a lease return in 2015. It's depreciated at a rate far more than standard Crosstreks do (and Subarus, as you know, don't depreciate that bad). And then, battery disposal. Nickel, cadmium, mercury, nickel, lead, lithium. All found in batteries and seriously nasty stuff to the environment and people.

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:44 am

I read an interesting article that talked about a problem that isn't talked about very much: energy storage. One of the big issues with our infrastructure is that a lot of the power generation capacity is wasted because we cannot efficiently store the electrical power once it is generated, and we also lose a huge amount of power trying to get it from the point of generation to the point of use. Solar is a perfect example of this issue. Solar could be much more useful if we were better at storing solar-generated power so it could be used when the sun isn't shining and transferred more efficiently to the areas where the sun isn't shining. Instead, what happens is that we have excess energy at some times and in some places, and energy shortages at other times and other places.

And, of course, the batteries are the real problem with EVs. Battery technology has not significantly changed in decades. Do you know what is inside a Tesla battery pack? Over 7,000 Panasonic 18650 lithium ion cells, that are just like you will find in most rechargeable flashlights and all laptop battery packs. It's not some magical battery - they are cheap as dirt.

There are some newer tech batteries being worked on, but nothing that is a quantum leap over Lithium ion. The most interesting is the super capacitor technology. These are amazing because they do not require the long recharge times like batteries. You hook them to a big enough power source, and they are charged almost instantly. The trick it to get them to discharge in a controlled way that doesn't fry you to a crisp...
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by kootenay joe » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:46 pm

The real answer is: don't make unnecessary driving trips. There is an environmental cost whether vehicle is gas or electric.
There is no doubt that Earth is suffering from our resource extraction & use in addition to our population of nearly 8 billion people.
The 'heyday' of "do whatever you want whenever you want to" is over. There is an environmental cost to all the stuff we buy and most of it we don't actually need. The intensity of wildfires, hurricanes, etc. is increasing because of human activity. We all need to act more responsibly.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by 1967redrider » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:01 pm

This thing looks way better than a Tesla, in my opinion.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by bladehound » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:57 pm

California is like a box of granola, take away the fruits and nuts all that's left is the flakes.

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Waukonda » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:08 pm

1967redrider wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:01 pm
This thing looks way better than a Tesla, in my opinion.
Another, of a recent string of great photos from you, John. Would love to see and hear that thing highballing down the tracks! ::tu::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by 1967redrider » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:49 pm

Waukonda wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:08 pm
1967redrider wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:01 pm
This thing looks way better than a Tesla, in my opinion.
Another, of a recent string of great photos from you, John. Would love to see and hear that thing highballing down the tracks! ::tu::
You and me both, brother! Not to hi-jack the thread, but Western Maryland Scenic Railroad is about 95% finished in restoring C&O 1309 articulated Mallet, it's a 2-6-6-4 I believe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesape ... _Ohio_1309

The above loco is only a 2-8-0 for comparison.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by bighomer » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:56 pm

💘 a big 8 wheeler rolling down down the track. ::ds::

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by KnifeSlinger#81 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:10 pm

I guess Newsom thought Californians weren’t leaving the state fast enough so he gave them yet another reason.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Mumbleypeg » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:46 pm

Electric powered cars have been available from mainstream automakers for about 10 years. To date they account for just 1.5% of the market, despite generous government subsidies averaging $7500 per vehicle. In California the state government adds $2500 on top of the federal subsidy. So we as taxpayers are paying for electric vehicles whether we like it or not! (It’s for the “greater good”, don’t you see?) ::barf::

BTW when the onboard battery wears out, they typically cost between $4000 to $6000 to replace. ::facepalm::

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:12 pm

California is still the most populous state in the country, with ~12% of the US population. That is more than the combined population of these 20 states:  Utah, Iowa, Nevada, Arkansas, Mississippi, Kansas, New Mexico, Nebraska, West Virginia, Idaho, Hawaii, New Hampshire, Maine, Montana, Rhode Island, Delaware, South Dakota, North Dakota & Alaska.

The top 4 states (CA, TX, FL & NY) represent 33% of the US population.

California is also 14.6% of the total GDP of the country. That's 66% more than the #2, Texas.

If California were a country, it would have the 5th largest GDP in the world, right between Germany & India.

You may not like the California politics, but there is no denying the importance of the state to the country as a whole.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TPK » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:45 pm

TwoFlowersLuggage wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:09 pm
That's OK, by 2035 there won't be anywhere worth going...
::tu:: ::nod::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TPK » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:47 pm

1967redrider wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:01 pm
This thing looks way better than a Tesla, in my opinion.
::tu:: ::nod:: Nice pictures Buddy! ::handshake:: ::super_happy::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by 1967redrider » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:33 pm

TPK wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:47 pm
1967redrider wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:01 pm
This thing looks way better than a Tesla, in my opinion.
::tu:: ::nod:: Nice pictures Buddy! ::handshake:: ::super_happy::

Thanks, bro!

In Cali there would also be a plaque next to the Baldwin Locomotive Works one stating, "The State of California has determined that licking the paint off of this locomotive, consuming coal or drinking expelled boiling water could cause injury." 🤭
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by samb1955 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:04 pm

kootenay joe wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:46 pm
The real answer is: don't make unnecessary driving trips. There is an environmental cost whether vehicle is gas or electric.
There is no doubt that Earth is suffering from our resource extraction & use in addition to our population of nearly 8 billion people.
The 'heyday' of "do whatever you want whenever you want to" is over. There is an environmental cost to all the stuff we buy and most of it we don't actually need. The intensity of wildfires, hurricanes, etc. is increasing because of human activity. We all need to act more responsibly.
kj
Good luck with that.

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:27 am

Just saw on the news that experts are saying that this mandate WILL over tax the electric grid in CA. The governor wants the only nuclear power plant in the state closed by 2025 and the state completely green by 2045. So I come back to my original post that this is going to cause major problems in California when millions of cars every day are plugged into a system that depends on the sun to shine and the wind to blow, with NO backup.
Not to worry though, these liberal politicians always have a scapegoat, it will be PG&E’s fault and not theirs. They will also blame profiteers from other states that sell them emergency power at ludicrous prices when they run out of power.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by WillyCamaro » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:39 am

All I can say too this un...
::rotflol::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Mumbleypeg » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:51 am

samb1955 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:04 pm
kootenay joe wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:46 pm
The real answer is: don't make unnecessary driving trips. There is an environmental cost whether vehicle is gas or electric.
There is no doubt that Earth is suffering from our resource extraction & use in addition to our population of nearly 8 billion people.
The 'heyday' of "do whatever you want whenever you want to" is over. There is an environmental cost to all the stuff we buy and most of it we don't actually need. The intensity of wildfires, hurricanes, etc. is increasing because of human activity. We all need to act more responsibly.
kj
Good luck with that.
It could happen sooner than you think. How did we all come to be paying for those subsidies on electric powered vehicles, windmills, etc. ::hmm::

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TPK » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:25 am

Sharpnshinyknives wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:27 am
Just saw on the news that experts are saying that this mandate WILL over tax the electric grid in CA. The governor wants the only nuclear power plant in the state closed by 2025 and the state completely green by 2045. So I come back to my original post that this is going to cause major problems in California when millions of cars every day are plugged into a system that depends on the sun to shine and the wind to blow, with NO backup.
Not to worry though, these liberal politicians always have a scapegoat, it will be PG&E’s fault and not theirs. They will also blame profiteers from other states that sell them emergency power at ludicrous prices when they run out of power.
Well, see it posative Mark. Brings up a lot of investment ideas doesn't it. ::hmm::
Car makers, wind, solar, electrical companies in the surrounding states and so on. But maybe the best one is companies who build & or run the electrical "Gas Stations".

Germany wants the same kind of stuff as Cali. Or at least they pretend to want it, and they keep talking about it but they have close to zero "Gas Sations" where you can reload or recharge your battery. ::dang::
Electrical cars with No infrastructure = stupid goal! ::dang:: They keep saying people should buy electrical cars, nobody knows where to recharge em if ya take a longer trip. ::dang:: Ya need a whole ssttload of "Gas Stations" for this type of goal. Not just in Germany but throughout Europe. Or not just in Cali., but throughout the US. Sooner or later we will drive electrical cars. Or they will drive us I should say. But the infrastructure has to come first IMO. ::hmm::

Just thinking out loud. :mrgreen:
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:36 pm

Tom, I think you are absolutely correct. The infrastructure MUST lead the expansion of alternative fuel vehicles. If we are stuck on conventional batteries (not super capacitors), then the only viable solution is to swap battery packs instead of recharging in the car. If the car was designed for quick battery swap, then I think it could be done in about the same time as a gas fill-up. Of course, the big challenge is then being able to store and recharge battery packs at the fill-up station. Can you imagine how many charged battery packs a busy station would need to have on hand? The size and weight of the packs is huge.

I think we must have the super capacitor technology - or - hydrogen fuel cells. Fuel cells are awesome tech. They produce electricity, and the waste is just warm water vapor. They can either run on hydrogen directly, or they can use other gases (like natural gas) that is first broken down to extract the hydrogen for the fuel cell. You get the efficiency of an electric vehicle without the problem of battery recharge time. Of course, now you need an infrastructure for the hydrogen or natural gas delivery. In my humble opinion, we should have been building that infrastructure 50 years ago.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:06 pm

T. Boone Pickens tried to build infrastructure for natural gas powered semi trucks about 10 years ago. The company was called Clean Energy Fuels. Everything looked to be coming along well, he had companies signed up to use the stations and commitments from many companies to change over their fleets to natural gas. Then something happened. Cummins decided to stop development of the natural gas engines that would power the semi’s. What happened was this. Companies that had made commitments to change their fleets over decided it didn’t make economic sense. The extra cost of the semi’s w/ the natural gas engines wouldn’t be recouped in the expected lifetime of the trucks. Over 100 Clean Energy Fuel stations were closed. Pickens did it right, he had apps for people to use to plan a route for a trip across the country where they could refuel natural gas vehicles, he put the filling stations in first and had commitments, but the economics of it caught up to it. Pickens poured billions into this project. There was no bigger cheerleader for natural gas in this country than Pickens.
I’m not sure who would have to build out the infrastructure to make alternatives to gasoline work. If the govt does it, then it won’t be done timely, cheaply or efficiently. Plus you will have too many connected people getting a piece of the action to funnel back to politicians like we have now.
If the private sector does it, then it’s got to make economic sense and a profit needs to be made. The key to all this is not the government deciding when this will happen and picking winners and losers, it’s has to be the fundamentals that drive this to work. The problem has been been for decades that we just aren’t there yet. Any state or country that tries to implement all this green energy nonsense is going to be at a huge disadvantage to those that don’t. I for one don’t want my state or country dictating to me what to drive. When they do, it’s no longer a free country. The people of California will be driven out of their own state by the inefficient mandates that drive up the cost of living and are extremely inconvenient. California is setting the stage for their own demise.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Mumbleypeg » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:24 am

Sharpnshinyknives wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:06 pm

I’m not sure who would have to build out the infrastructure to make alternatives to gasoline work. If the govt does it, then it won’t be done timely, cheaply or efficiently. Plus you will have too many connected people getting a piece of the action to funnel back to politicians like we have now.
If the private sector does it, then it’s got to make economic sense and a profit needs to be made. The key to all this is not the government deciding when this will happen and picking winners and losers, it’s has to be the fundamentals that drive this to work. The problem has been been for decades that we just aren’t there yet. Any state or country that tries to implement all this green energy nonsense is going to be at a huge disadvantage to those that don’t. I for one don’t want my state or country dictating to me what to drive. When they do, it’s no longer a free country. The people of California will be driven out of their own state by the inefficient mandates that drive up the cost of living and are extremely inconvenient. California is setting the stage for their own demise.
Amen!

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:49 am

I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said - I hate gov't mandates like this. They aren't driven by the science, they are driven by politics and marketing. I just want to point out that the universe is NOT going to wait for us "to be ready". We are burning the oil at a tremendous rate, and that can't continue forever. We can't just sit and wait for someone else to fix everything so that we never have to change. We need to be willing to examine the possibilities and support new technologies that make sense.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by 1967redrider » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:36 pm

Our neighbors' have a daughter stationed at North Island Naval Station in San Diego and I was talking to them yesterday. Her father said she stays on the peninsula because the homeless situation there and at every costal city from Mexico up is beyond comprehension. He said they have converted buses into toilet facilities so people aren't defecating on the sidewalk, used needles are everywhere.

His opinion is inept and incompetent political decisions have caused this, and he's a true rocket scientist by profession. I have no reason to doubt what he told me and I now have no desire to travel there and witness this mess for myself. Things you won't see on the evening news. ::facepalm::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:31 am

I have lived in California my entire life, and in a "coastal city" of California for almost 40 years. Homeless issues in California didn't start recently. These issues have existed for as long as I can remember and were no different no matter who was in the Governor's chair. Have you spent much time in major cities anywhere in America? Go to downtown Chicago (in the Summer & Spring!), Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Baltimore, Miami, Phoenix (not in the Summer!), etc, etc. America has a homeless problem. Now, consider this: If you are homeless and living on the street, would you rather be on a street in Chicago, or a street in San Diego? A street in Detroit, or a street in Santa Monica? It is a heck of a lot easier to be homeless in a place where the temperature is 60 - 80 deg all year long! The average rental for a 1-bedroom apartment in San Diego is $1800/month. Renting one bedroom in a 4 bedroom house will cost you a minimum of $700/month (in a lousy location). Becoming homeless is not difficult in coastal California. Why is the rent so high? Because a lot of people want to live here...
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by zzyzzogeton » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:54 am

Expect to suddenly see alternative fuel engines developed and distribution for those fuels enabled as we run out of fossil fuels. There are people working on it now. They just don't want to make them available just yet.

For years, there have been stories about inventors coming up with high mileage engines, alt-fuel engines, etc Then the engines disappear from discussion, with stories of said engines being bought by major oil companies.

Are these conspiracy theories true? Are big oil companies keeping high efficiency engines and alt-fuel engines off the market until they have milked every $$ the can out of fossil fuels knowing that their fossil fuel resources will be worthless as soon as the world shifts to alt-fuel/hydrogen/fuel cell engines? Or are all these stories just pipedreams?

We won't know until it happens.

One thing about alt-fuel distribution systems. The existing gas/diesel distribution/sales networks developed by big oil could be shifted relatively easily to alt-fuels compared to the creation of a new distribution system for battery recharging or battery swap-out systems.

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