“There’s a sucker born every minute”
- Mumbleypeg
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 13458
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:28 am
- Location: Republic of Texas
“There’s a sucker born every minute”
Although the phrase “There’s a sucker born every minute” is most often associated with showman P. T. Barnum, there is no evidence he actually said it.
Which brings me to the current eBay listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/PROTOTYPE-PREM ... %7Ciid%3A1
Along that same line, “When faced with selling a low value knife, print up a Certificate of Authenticity to go with it” could be attributed to James F. Parker. A good story never hurt either. “Old factory inventory find”, “Factory Prototype”, “Limited run”, these sales techniques were all from the mind of master salesman James Parker.
I recently bought a nice Premier stockman exactly like this one for less than $20, including shipping from Canada. I’ll be interested to see what this “prototype” that has a supposed COA with it brings!
Ken
Which brings me to the current eBay listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/PROTOTYPE-PREM ... %7Ciid%3A1
Along that same line, “When faced with selling a low value knife, print up a Certificate of Authenticity to go with it” could be attributed to James F. Parker. A good story never hurt either. “Old factory inventory find”, “Factory Prototype”, “Limited run”, these sales techniques were all from the mind of master salesman James Parker.
I recently bought a nice Premier stockman exactly like this one for less than $20, including shipping from Canada. I’ll be interested to see what this “prototype” that has a supposed COA with it brings!
Ken
- Attachments
-
- 863241DC-C228-45EA-8164-56E81F906E48.jpeg (21.86 KiB) Viewed 1862 times
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
- Quick Steel
- Bronze Tier
- Posts: 16972
- Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:39 pm
- Location: Lebanon, KY
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Ken, Kindly educate me a bit. I have no COAs nor interest in them. But assuming that what is written on them is true I don't see where someone is being suckered. In this case the COA says it is a pre-production prototype made at the Olbertz factory. If any of the statements are false then clearly the COA is deceptive. But if accurate, then the COA just seems to add a bit of "formality" encouraging the purchase. Please do not let me remain a potential sucker.
- New_Windsor_NY
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 10935
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:50 pm
- Location: I'm On The Far Right On The Left Coast In Commiefornia
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
He has ALOT of "preproduction/prototype" knives listed.
Kid: "Wish we had time to bury them fellas."
Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
Clint Eastwood-The Outlaw Josey Wales
Skip
Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
Clint Eastwood-The Outlaw Josey Wales
Skip
- Mumbleypeg
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 13458
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:28 am
- Location: Republic of Texas
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
To produce a COA all you need is a printer. Then if you think a COA matters, it comes down to the honesty (or lack thereof) of the seller.
In this case the seller is SMKW, home of many “factory warehouse finds”. Good salesmanship, flim-flam, or some of both? Either way IMHO it has very little to do with a knife’s value. Apparently to some collectors, it does. If so, go for it. Personally I’m an advocate of “Buy the knife, not the story”. JMO
But as I said, I’m interested to see what the COA and the story add to the value of the knife. Although most of the Premiers are of good quality they just don’t bring much money even in excellent condition.
Ken
In this case the seller is SMKW, home of many “factory warehouse finds”. Good salesmanship, flim-flam, or some of both? Either way IMHO it has very little to do with a knife’s value. Apparently to some collectors, it does. If so, go for it. Personally I’m an advocate of “Buy the knife, not the story”. JMO
But as I said, I’m interested to see what the COA and the story add to the value of the knife. Although most of the Premiers are of good quality they just don’t bring much money even in excellent condition.
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
- OLDE CUTLER
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 4333
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 pm
- Location: South Dakota
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Yes, he does. Makes you wonder doesn't it, anyone with a printer can make up certificates, and how would it ever be possible to verify that. He only has one negative review, and that one accuses him of selling fakes.New_Windsor_NY wrote:He has ALOT of "preproduction/prototype" knives listed.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"
-
- Posts: 13373
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm
- Location: West Kootenays, B.C.
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Being Canadian means that i saw Premier knives in hardware stores when i was younger. Not sure how long ago but i don't recall seeing them when i was of school age (1950's- early 1960's). And i bought a couple when i was in my 20's (about 1970). So i would like to buy this knife. Not because of any 'prototype' claim but because it is a good knife likely about 40 or more years old, and it reminds me of times past. Most of the German made Premiers i see on ebay have been used.
Rather than being a 'prototype' it likely is from an early run, maybe the first one that Olbertz did.
kj
Edit to add: i would not buy any of the Olbertz made knives with celluloid handles. I have owned many of them (Fight'n Rooster, Buck Creek, and others). They will off gas. Not 'maybe', they will.
Rather than being a 'prototype' it likely is from an early run, maybe the first one that Olbertz did.
kj
Edit to add: i would not buy any of the Olbertz made knives with celluloid handles. I have owned many of them (Fight'n Rooster, Buck Creek, and others). They will off gas. Not 'maybe', they will.
- KnifeSlinger#81
- Posts: 4171
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:50 pm
- Location: Oklahoma
- Contact:
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
An "authentication certificate" from SMKW means little to nothing if you ask me.
-Paul T.
WANTED: Shapleigh Diamond Edge branded Schrades in good condition.
WANTED: Shapleigh Diamond Edge branded Schrades in good condition.
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
I am a proponent of "buy the knife not the story."
When Schrade closed and everything was auctioned off, a lot of the items were sold through Smoky Mountain Knife Works and through Blue Ridge knives. I believe there was some sort of connection between the owners at the time. Each purchase you made from Smokey or Blue Ridge and often times from eBay sellers who were selling items they had purchased from Smoky or Blue Ridge , you were given a COA that basically said you were buying one of the last remaining items made by Imperial Schrade Corporation, or something to that effect. They authenticated the item to be from the Schrade Factory in Ellenville New York. Oddly enough I received the same COA when buying some items from Smokey that had come from the Imperial Factory in Ireland!
The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house.
When Schrade closed and everything was auctioned off, a lot of the items were sold through Smoky Mountain Knife Works and through Blue Ridge knives. I believe there was some sort of connection between the owners at the time. Each purchase you made from Smokey or Blue Ridge and often times from eBay sellers who were selling items they had purchased from Smoky or Blue Ridge , you were given a COA that basically said you were buying one of the last remaining items made by Imperial Schrade Corporation, or something to that effect. They authenticated the item to be from the Schrade Factory in Ellenville New York. Oddly enough I received the same COA when buying some items from Smokey that had come from the Imperial Factory in Ireland!
The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house.
Dale
AAPK Administrator
Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet
Job 13:15
"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
AAPK Administrator
Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet
Job 13:15
"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
- OLDE CUTLER
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 4333
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 pm
- Location: South Dakota
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Post a picture of one of those COA's if you can, I have never seen one. Must be kind of like a deed to ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge.orvet wrote:I am a proponent of "buy the knife not the story."
When Schrade closed and everything was auctioned off, a lot of the items were sold through Smoky Mountain Knife Works and through Blue Ridge knives. I believe there was some sort of connection between the owners at the time. Each purchase you made from Smokey or Blue Ridge and often times from eBay sellers who were selling items they had purchased from Smoky or Blue Ridge , you were given a COA that basically said you were buying one of the last remaining items made by Imperial Schrade Corporation, or something to that effect. They authenticated the item to be from the Schrade Factory in Ellenville New York. Oddly enough I received the same COA when buying some items from Smokey that had come from the Imperial Factory in Ireland!
The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"
-
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 5129
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:41 am
- Location: Central Massachusetts
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
I just recently picked up the exact same knife off of Ebay. Nice little pattern, high quality, great blade combination.
Steve Pfeiffer, author of Collecting Case Knives: Identification and Price Guide published by Krause Publications.
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
I looked in the three or four plastic totes that I thought would be the most likely place for me to have left a COA, but I didn't find one in there. I must cleaned house better than I thought.OLDE CUTLER wrote:
Post a picture of one of those COA's if you can, I have never seen one. Must be kind of like a deed to ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge.
I thought I might have had a picture of one on my computer, but there's half a terabyte of knife stuff so since my search engine didn't find it for me you'll have to waste until I stumble across one somewhere, which I know.will. The big question is will I remember where to post it?
It's not as good as the entire COA, but there is one posted with the knife here on AAPK.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=50807&p=544230&hil ... oa#p544158
That's as good as I do with the moment.
Dale
AAPK Administrator
Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet
Job 13:15
"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
AAPK Administrator
Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet
Job 13:15
"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
You could put this certificate with any knife made by Friedrich Oldbeertz.
To be a proper certificate it should have a serial number and description of the knife.
I have been through this a few years back.
These certificate were handed out like toilet paper and there is only on thing to do with them.
When Schrade closed there was certificate handed out for more knives than was purchased from the factory .
It sounded good "Knives purchased from Schrade factory closer collection"( get while they last ,very few left ) It was all to do with sales.
Grant
Edit : Dale posted just before me.
To be a proper certificate it should have a serial number and description of the knife.
I have been through this a few years back.
These certificate were handed out like toilet paper and there is only on thing to do with them.
When Schrade closed there was certificate handed out for more knives than was purchased from the factory .
It sounded good "Knives purchased from Schrade factory closer collection"( get while they last ,very few left ) It was all to do with sales.
Grant
Edit : Dale posted just before me.
Politicians should be like a good pocket knife ." Sharp and useful "
- RobesonsRme.com
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 9903
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:44 pm
- Location: The Heart of Dixie.
- Contact:
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Never, ever pay up for a COA of any kind re' pocketknives and never, ever pay up for a "prototype".
Jim Parker pretty much invented prototypes when he was selling the Case Classic series.
Even if prototypes were ever produced by any cutlery firm, why would they have made more than one or two?
It's all hype.
Charlie
Jim Parker pretty much invented prototypes when he was selling the Case Classic series.
Even if prototypes were ever produced by any cutlery firm, why would they have made more than one or two?
It's all hype.
Charlie
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
"...Men may spurn our appeals, reject our message, oppose our arguments, despise our persons ___but they are helpless against our prayers. "
Sidlow Baxter
"...Men may spurn our appeals, reject our message, oppose our arguments, despise our persons ___but they are helpless against our prayers. "
Sidlow Baxter
-
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 2187
- Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:37 pm
- Location: westminster sc
- Contact:
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
I have a little different view on COA's yes to a expert they don't mean much he can look at a knife and tell what steel it has and what year it was made , how many were made & what handle material it has . but not everyone is that expert so the info on the COA's are very helpful doesn't mean they should bring more money just good info & I hope you would buy what you like not a COA .
- New_Windsor_NY
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 10935
- Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:50 pm
- Location: I'm On The Far Right On The Left Coast In Commiefornia
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Queen-Cutlery- ... SwgOpczaOn
I'm not saying it is or it isn't. Just posting for discussion.
I'm not saying it is or it isn't. Just posting for discussion.
Kid: "Wish we had time to bury them fellas."
Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
Clint Eastwood-The Outlaw Josey Wales
Skip
Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
Clint Eastwood-The Outlaw Josey Wales
Skip
-
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 2187
- Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:37 pm
- Location: westminster sc
- Contact:
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
I would just say he is proud of everything that he has listed on EbayNew_Windsor_NY wrote:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Queen-Cutlery- ... SwgOpczaOn
I'm not saying it is or it isn't. Just posting for discussion.
- OLDE CUTLER
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 4333
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 pm
- Location: South Dakota
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
I can remember hearing a conversation between a serious knife collector/dealer with a customer who had a "collectable" knife with a COA at a gunshow a few years back. The dealer told the guy "COA's should be printed on toilet paper, that way they would be useful for something".
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
That certificate and $20 could get you a cup of coffee most anywhere.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
Wayne
Please visit My AAPK store https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/catalog/btrwtr
Wayne
Please visit My AAPK store https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/catalog/btrwtr
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
This one was a bit of a shocker
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Old-Ra ... SwYNlbuQBR
and not even a whiff of a COA for your $900
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Old-Ra ... SwYNlbuQBR
and not even a whiff of a COA for your $900
-
- Posts: 13373
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm
- Location: West Kootenays, B.C.
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
The listing includes "or best offer". It might have sold for 1/2 or less of the $899 asking price.
kj
kj
Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Ditto Dale and may I say very well said. I have a few customs that came with a COA and like my CRK knives I have kept them with the knives howbeit I saw a CRK Clone one time that had some issues with the knife but the COA was spot on. Outside of these type knives I've never paid much attention to a COA I think most are printed just to try to add some "perceived value" in the eye of a potential customer.orvet wrote:I am a proponent of "buy the knife not the story."
The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house.