“There’s a sucker born every minute”

A place to discuss & share pictures of anything that relates to knives.
Post Reply
User avatar
Mumbleypeg
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 13409
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:28 am
Location: Republic of Texas

“There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Mumbleypeg »

Although the phrase “There’s a sucker born every minute” is most often associated with showman P. T. Barnum, there is no evidence he actually said it.

Which brings me to the current eBay listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/PROTOTYPE-PREM ... %7Ciid%3A1

Along that same line, “When faced with selling a low value knife, print up a Certificate of Authenticity to go with it” could be attributed to James F. Parker. :lol: A good story never hurt either. ::facepalm:: “Old factory inventory find”, “Factory Prototype”, “Limited run”, these sales techniques were all from the mind of master salesman James Parker.

I recently bought a nice Premier stockman exactly like this one for less than $20, including shipping from Canada. I’ll be interested to see what this “prototype” that has a supposed COA with it brings!

Ken
Attachments
863241DC-C228-45EA-8164-56E81F906E48.jpeg
863241DC-C228-45EA-8164-56E81F906E48.jpeg (21.86 KiB) Viewed 1852 times
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.

If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.

When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.

https://www.akti.org/
User avatar
Quick Steel
Bronze Tier
Bronze Tier
Posts: 16953
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Lebanon, KY

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Quick Steel »

Ken, Kindly educate me a bit. I have no COAs nor interest in them. But assuming that what is written on them is true I don't see where someone is being suckered. In this case the COA says it is a pre-production prototype made at the Olbertz factory. If any of the statements are false then clearly the COA is deceptive. But if accurate, then the COA just seems to add a bit of "formality" encouraging the purchase. Please do not let me remain a potential sucker. :)
User avatar
New_Windsor_NY
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 10828
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:50 pm
Location: I'm On The Far Right On The Left Coast In Commiefornia

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by New_Windsor_NY »

He has ALOT of "preproduction/prototype" knives listed.
Kid: "Wish we had time to bury them fellas."
Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
Clint Eastwood-The Outlaw Josey Wales

Skip
User avatar
Mumbleypeg
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 13409
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:28 am
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Mumbleypeg »

To produce a COA all you need is a printer. Then if you think a COA matters, it comes down to the honesty (or lack thereof) of the seller.

In this case the seller is SMKW, home of many “factory warehouse finds”. Good salesmanship, flim-flam, or some of both? ::skeptic:: Either way IMHO it has very little to do with a knife’s value. Apparently to some collectors, it does. ::shrug:: If so, go for it. Personally I’m an advocate of “Buy the knife, not the story”. JMO

But as I said, I’m interested to see what the COA and the story add to the value of the knife. Although most of the Premiers are of good quality they just don’t bring much money even in excellent condition.

Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.

If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.

When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.

https://www.akti.org/
User avatar
OLDE CUTLER
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4290
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by OLDE CUTLER »

New_Windsor_NY wrote:He has ALOT of "preproduction/prototype" knives listed.
Yes, he does. Makes you wonder doesn't it, anyone with a printer can make up certificates, and how would it ever be possible to verify that. He only has one negative review, and that one accuses him of selling fakes.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"
kootenay joe
Posts: 13373
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm
Location: West Kootenays, B.C.

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by kootenay joe »

Being Canadian means that i saw Premier knives in hardware stores when i was younger. Not sure how long ago but i don't recall seeing them when i was of school age (1950's- early 1960's). And i bought a couple when i was in my 20's (about 1970). So i would like to buy this knife. Not because of any 'prototype' claim but because it is a good knife likely about 40 or more years old, and it reminds me of times past. Most of the German made Premiers i see on ebay have been used.
Rather than being a 'prototype' it likely is from an early run, maybe the first one that Olbertz did.
kj
Edit to add: i would not buy any of the Olbertz made knives with celluloid handles. I have owned many of them (Fight'n Rooster, Buck Creek, and others). They will off gas. Not 'maybe', they will.
User avatar
KnifeSlinger#81
Posts: 4171
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:50 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by KnifeSlinger#81 »

An "authentication certificate" from SMKW means little to nothing if you ask me.
-Paul T.

WANTED: Shapleigh Diamond Edge branded Schrades in good condition.
User avatar
orvet
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 19336
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 6:23 am
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by orvet »

I am a proponent of "buy the knife not the story."

When Schrade closed and everything was auctioned off, a lot of the items were sold through Smoky Mountain Knife Works and through Blue Ridge knives. I believe there was some sort of connection between the owners at the time. Each purchase you made from Smokey or Blue Ridge and often times from eBay sellers who were selling items they had purchased from Smoky or Blue Ridge , you were given a COA that basically said you were buying one of the last remaining items made by Imperial Schrade Corporation, or something to that effect. They authenticated the item to be from the Schrade Factory in Ellenville New York. Oddly enough I received the same COA when buying some items from Smokey that had come from the Imperial Factory in Ireland!

The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house. ::facepalm::
Dale
AAPK Administrator

Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet

Job 13:15

"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
User avatar
OLDE CUTLER
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4290
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by OLDE CUTLER »

orvet wrote:I am a proponent of "buy the knife not the story."

When Schrade closed and everything was auctioned off, a lot of the items were sold through Smoky Mountain Knife Works and through Blue Ridge knives. I believe there was some sort of connection between the owners at the time. Each purchase you made from Smokey or Blue Ridge and often times from eBay sellers who were selling items they had purchased from Smoky or Blue Ridge , you were given a COA that basically said you were buying one of the last remaining items made by Imperial Schrade Corporation, or something to that effect. They authenticated the item to be from the Schrade Factory in Ellenville New York. Oddly enough I received the same COA when buying some items from Smokey that had come from the Imperial Factory in Ireland!

The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house. ::facepalm::
Post a picture of one of those COA's if you can, I have never seen one. Must be kind of like a deed to ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge.
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"
knifeaholic
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 5124
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:41 am
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by knifeaholic »

I just recently picked up the exact same knife off of Ebay. Nice little pattern, high quality, great blade combination.
Attachments
IMG_1572.JPG
IMG_1574.JPG
Steve Pfeiffer, author of Collecting Case Knives: Identification and Price Guide published by Krause Publications.
User avatar
orvet
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 19336
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 6:23 am
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by orvet »

OLDE CUTLER wrote:
Post a picture of one of those COA's if you can, I have never seen one. Must be kind of like a deed to ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge.
I looked in the three or four plastic totes that I thought would be the most likely place for me to have left a COA, but I didn't find one in there. I must cleaned house better than I thought.
I thought I might have had a picture of one on my computer, but there's half a terabyte of knife stuff so since my search engine didn't find it for me you'll have to waste until I stumble across one somewhere, which I know.will. The big question is will I remember where to post it?

It's not as good as the entire COA, but there is one posted with the knife here on AAPK.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=50807&p=544230&hil ... oa#p544158

That's as good as I do with the moment. ::handshake::
Dale
AAPK Administrator

Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet

Job 13:15

"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
User avatar
Shearer
Bronze Tier
Bronze Tier
Posts: 2353
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:11 pm
Location: Australia

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Shearer »

You could put this certificate with any knife made by Friedrich Oldbeertz.
To be a proper certificate it should have a serial number and description of the knife.
I have been through this a few years back.
These certificate were handed out like toilet paper and there is only on thing to do with them.
When Schrade closed there was certificate handed out for more knives than was purchased from the factory .
It sounded good "Knives purchased from Schrade factory closer collection"( get while they last ,very few left ) It was all to do with sales.

Grant

Edit : Dale posted just before me.
Attachments
certificate knife.jpg
Politicians should be like a good pocket knife ." Sharp and useful "
User avatar
RobesonsRme.com
Posts: 9887
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie.
Contact:

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

Never, ever pay up for a COA of any kind re' pocketknives and never, ever pay up for a "prototype".

Jim Parker pretty much invented prototypes when he was selling the Case Classic series.

Even if prototypes were ever produced by any cutlery firm, why would they have made more than one or two?

It's all hype.

Charlie
DE OPPRESSO LIBER

"...Men may spurn our appeals, reject our message, oppose our arguments, despise our persons ___but they are helpless against our prayers. "

Sidlow Baxter
kennedy knives
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:37 pm
Location: westminster sc
Contact:

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by kennedy knives »

I have a little different view on COA's yes to a expert they don't mean much he can look at a knife and tell what steel it has and what year it was made , how many were made & what handle material it has . but not everyone is that expert so the info on the COA's are very helpful doesn't mean they should bring more money just good info & I hope you would buy what you like not a COA .
User avatar
New_Windsor_NY
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 10828
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:50 pm
Location: I'm On The Far Right On The Left Coast In Commiefornia

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by New_Windsor_NY »

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Queen-Cutlery- ... SwgOpczaOn

I'm not saying it is or it isn't. Just posting for discussion. ::shrug::
Kid: "Wish we had time to bury them fellas."
Josey Wales: "To hell with them fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
Clint Eastwood-The Outlaw Josey Wales

Skip
kennedy knives
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 2187
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:37 pm
Location: westminster sc
Contact:

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by kennedy knives »

New_Windsor_NY wrote:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Queen-Cutlery- ... SwgOpczaOn

I'm not saying it is or it isn't. Just posting for discussion. ::shrug::
I would just say he is proud of everything that he has listed on Ebay ::shrug::
User avatar
OLDE CUTLER
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 4290
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 pm
Location: South Dakota

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by OLDE CUTLER »

I can remember hearing a conversation between a serious knife collector/dealer with a customer who had a "collectable" knife with a COA at a gunshow a few years back. The dealer told the guy "COA's should be printed on toilet paper, that way they would be useful for something".
"Sometimes even the blind chicken finds corn"
User avatar
btrwtr
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 5061
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 11:53 am

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by btrwtr »

That certificate and $20 could get you a cup of coffee most anywhere.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.

Wayne

Please visit My AAPK store https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/catalog/btrwtr
Corso
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: England

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by Corso »

This one was a bit of a shocker

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Old-Ra ... SwYNlbuQBR

and not even a whiff of a COA for your $900
kootenay joe
Posts: 13373
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm
Location: West Kootenays, B.C.

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by kootenay joe »

The listing includes "or best offer". It might have sold for 1/2 or less of the $899 asking price.
kj
User avatar
r redden
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:06 pm
Location: Asheville, N.C.

Re: “There’s a sucker born every minute”

Post by r redden »

orvet wrote:I am a proponent of "buy the knife not the story."
The COAs were not a deal maker or deal-breaker for me. I knew what the knives were and could care less about the COA. I threw most of them away but I imagine somewhere hidden in the recesses of my "collection" are a few of Smokey's Infamous COAs.
I need to be more diligent in cleaning house. ::facepalm::
Ditto Dale and may I say very well said. I have a few customs that came with a COA and like my CRK knives I have kept them with the knives howbeit I saw a CRK Clone one time that had some issues with the knife but the COA was spot on. Outside of these type knives I've never paid much attention to a COA I think most are printed just to try to add some "perceived value" in the eye of a potential customer. ::hmm::
Post Reply

Return to “General Knife Discussion”