Understanding Pattern #15

GEC specializes in highly collectable and premium quality usable pocket knives. The company's USA manufactured knives have quickly proven to be a big hit with both collectors and users who seek quality American craftsmanship.
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kootenay joe
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Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

Here is an auction for a 2013 #15 pattern Barlow; very well made as can be seen in pictures, sold for $476.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Great-Eastern- ... true&rt=nc

There have been a great many runs of pattern 15, each making a slight variation in etch or handle material, or blade type. Some of these i have observed selling 'high', over $300; whereas others sell in the range of original price ($90-$130 roughly).
Can someone tell me which of the #15's are the highly sought ones (i.e. high priced), and why ?
Any information about these 15's will be helpful. There are so many variations it is a challenge to understand the 'ranking'.
thanks, kj
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robbobus
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by robbobus »

That went for a pretty penny. Those barlows are outstanding, especially if you bought them from a dealer. That clip point from 2013 was, I think, the second run of Charlie's barlows and possibly the most popular. About 500 made total in about a dozen variations. Some people want to make a set, some just want what they can get, driving the price through the roof. My user barlow is from this run, brown sawcut I believe, but its stored away for now. Oh, I found mine on the secondary market and paid an outrageous $55. ::groove::
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by Old Hunter »

KJ, I've never understood it either. I own about 13 GEC's, five of them the AAPK Club Knives (only ones that I know where to find). The rest have been from reserving in time to get one when the short window opened - and that always from being tipped by a post here on AAPK or Blade Forum. OH
Ps I have one TC Barlow, a 2013 with a Sheepfoot main - only got it because a friendly fellow Blade Forum member sent me a PM with a link and told me it was time to order one.
Deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club...Robert Ruark
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by MadTrapper »

Although some will try, there's no explaining it because it makes no sense. You gotta be a member of the GEC #77 and #15 Secret Society to get one. ::td::
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by Tsar Bomba »

CK is allegedly going to have reservations for the 77 Barlow but they have already pushed them back once because of clarification on the handle materials.

I"m just glad they haven't gone with the "lolly scramble" model KSF and others have chosen. ::td::
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kootenay joe
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

I am still hoping that someone will post "Everything You Need to Know About Pattern #15".
i.e. "these are the valuable runs" and why;
and "these are the average 15's, not so highly sought".

Somebody's gotta know !
kj
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knowtracks
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by knowtracks »

Hey KJ,
If you are just talking about Charlie's TC #15 Barlows, the 1st two runs are more sought after and of course the particular knives in the preceding runs that GEC only made a few of, IE 3 or 5 of a certain handle material. Like in the very 1st run there were only 5 Barlows made with Copperhead bone covers in a two blade. As you can well imagine Charlie was not ready for the over whelming response to this SFO and didn't have that many made in the 1st two runs. ::dang:: But GEC has made many other knives on this pattern not just Barlows. Some of which are in my favorites to carry! ::tu::

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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by m0nk »

KJ, I've often wondered what the secret is on the highly sought-after patterns too, or more accurately, why some of them are not big sellers. To start with, the #15 pattern is just a good mid-size knife, not too big and not too small. Plus any kind of a GEC Barlow seems to be a hot item. Some S&M barlows are sitting on the shelves with no apparent frenzy. However, there are still #15 Crown Lifters on the dealers' shelves, and personally I like the antique yellow bone. I can see why the Beer Scouts are sold out, because, well, it's a Beer Scout. But the Crown Lifters are basically the same knife, just without the bail and the Beer Scout embellishments. There are still lots of really nice 78 single blades available, but I understand that lots of them were made so it could be just a numbers game. In general, I've seen the SFO single blade models go very fast, it seems to be just that simple that they are viewed as more collectable and therefore desirable. I don't think there are any 78 SFOs still available. The appaloosa 78s were literally sold before GEC started making them. Another example, the 54 Big Jack SFO for KSF in muslin micarta is a classy looking knife, yet they still have some left probably because it's a 2-blade. So I'd have to conclude that a (1) single blade SFO, (2) barlow pattern, (3) in a GEC #15 frame seems to be the magic formula. ...Or just a Northwoods brand in any configuration, yeah, those are all magical too.

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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

Thanks for this input guys.
Is the 2013 Tom's Choice Barlow i show in O.P. one of the first 2 runs of Charlie C's Barlows ? It not, what explains the nearly $500 selling price ?
There were many bidders, not just 2 guys bidding each other up.
kj
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by JohnR »

KJ, of the 15's the TC Barlows are the most sought after and can go for quite a sum, single clips usually bring high money although I prefer 2 blade TC's. Most of the other 15's will trade in the 80 to 100 range although certain Beer Scouts command more. There have also been a few small runs of knives such as a stainless single clip Elk that command good money.
I really like the 15 pattern for the wide variety of knives that have been made on that pattern. GEC really needs to do another large run of all the blade, handle options.
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kootenay joe
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

John, you have Beautiful knives !
And Thanks for explaining the 15's. I think i now understand (somewhat): The #15 pattern has been made in so many variations that there are dedicated pattern 15 collectors. Only by being 'dedicated' can you know of every run of pattern 15 and which ones are harder to find. It is these dedicated 15 collectors who bid against each other and account for the very high prices for the rarer ones. It is not someone like myself who does not know an average 15 from a rare 15 who is bidding high, just the 'specialists'.
Is there a name for the blade that looks like a slender Sheepsfoot ? ( pic of 3 one of which has a 'scratted-like' handle)
kj
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by JohnR »

Thanks KJ, as far as I know there is not a name for that blade, its like a thin sheepsfoot as you stated. When Charlie had that run of Ancient Barlow's run they recreated that blade from an original English Barlow Charlie has in his collection, I would guess the original dates from the late 1700's to early 1800's.
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by robbobus »

Alot of very nice15s there John. Lucky snag on that bottom barlow from the last run.
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by knowtracks »

Good lookin Knives and photos JohnR !!! ::tu:: Thank You for posting them!! ::nod::

I see you got one of the Scarce "Stormy Sky" Sheepsfoot TC's!! 8) 8) Only 5 or 7 of those made, can't remember which!! ::shrug::


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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by JohnR »

Thanks guys, Dave, I think Charlie told me there were 10 made at the end of the run when they had leftover parts, that stormy bone is pretty nice stuff.
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by knowtracks »

kootenay joe wrote:Thanks for this input guys.
Is the 2013 Tom's Choice Barlow i show in O.P. one of the first 2 runs of Charlie C's Barlows ? It not, what explains the nearly $500 selling price ?
There were many bidders, not just 2 guys bidding each other up.
kj

Yes Roland! The 1st release was in 2012, only one run was made, it has a spear main, there were 249 total pieces made. The knife you posted in the OP was from the second run in 2013, there were 3 different runs made that year with a total of 976 pieces made. For some reason, one what I understand, the Ebony covers seem to be the most sought after. That particular knife you posted there were 47 made in the second run with the Tom's Choice label in 2013.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

Big help. Thank you Dave.
kj
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

Right now, with 15 hrs left there is a 2016 #15 Tidioute "Tom's Choice" with a clip blade & jigged bone on ebay at $355.
GEC has brought a group of new people into the hobby of knife collecting & they focus just on the GEC knives. I hope some will discover vintage knives, and that knife collecting offers even more than just GEC collecting.
kj
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by JohnR »

Roland, although I'm an older guy I'm fairly new to the knife collecting hobby. While I really like GEC knives I get more excited finding a good condition old knife, that really is my main focus.
What I appreciate about GEC is how they produce high quality recreations of the vintage knives. I have noticed at the Rendezvous that a lot of the younger collectors ,while there for GEC knives ,love it when we show our collection of vintage knives and many of them are also collecting vintage knives that appeal to them.
I think I commented to Charlie at the Rendezvous that I was surprised to see all the younger collectors and how that is good for our hobby, I do think GEC has played some part in that.
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

John, i agree. Absolutely GEC has brought hundreds of people new to knife collecting into their following. At present most are dedicated GEC collectors and unaware of the rich & vast history of knives and the many fantastic vintage knives that can be collected. But, that's o.k. it is all under the broad arc of knife collecting.
kj
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by TokMac »

kootenay joe wrote:John, you have Beautiful knives !
And Thanks for explaining the 15's. I think i now understand (somewhat): The #15 pattern has been made in so many variations that there are dedicated pattern 15 collectors. Only by being 'dedicated' can you know of every run of pattern 15 and which ones are harder to find. It is these dedicated 15 collectors who bid against each other and account for the very high prices for the rarer ones. It is not someone like myself who does not know an average 15 from a rare 15 who is bidding high, just the 'specialists'.
Is there a name for the blade that looks like a slender Sheepsfoot ? ( pic of 3 one of which has a 'scratted-like' handle)
kj
I'm quite new to AAPK, but I've been collecting GECs for several years now. I think some people refer to these slender sheepfoots as a "lambfoot" blade. I'm not sure if that's a term that has a history or even much traction, but it seems like a name used with some degree of consistency.

It also looks like you've had a lot of responses about your #15 question. I might only add that I think a mid-sized sleeve board is just very appealing to a lot of people. But almost always, a #15 barlow from GEC will just plain be more sought-after than some other kind of #15 (obviously there are exceptions). The point I'm trying to get a here is that, for some reason, there has been barlow-mania the past few years. In my humble opinion, there is little practical difference between a "TC" barlow and a "#15 Boys Knife" with a standard bolster. Is the barlow "stronger?" Sure, probably, that's the historical logic, anyway. But we're talking about traditional slipjoints, not tactical knives, so I think there is little difference. But I think there is a nostalgia that surrounds the barlow. Perhaps this is because you remember your grandfather used one or because you read about it a Mark Twain novel. For me, it just so happened that the first knife I ever bought (and subsequently lost) with my own money was a barlow. This, then, is why I believe the #15 barlow because more sought-after. Then, we people want something, it makes other people want it, even if they don't know why. What follows, then, is barlow-mania. :wink:

I think Charlie has done a a lot to the tubes and covers to make them a bit more collectible than other series. So that probably adds fuel.

As others mentioned, there are other sought-after #15s and the reasons can vary. People seem to love the stainless steel + elk, for example. Other knives, like the electrician knife are specialized and seemingly more rare compared to other large releases.

One thing I find fascinating about the barlows from GEC is that the break from normal conventions on them. Most every pattern is offered in a Tidioute trim and a Northfield trim. But the #15 barlow is ("seemingly") only a "TC" barlow...meaning Tidioute Cutlery. And the #77 barlow is only offered in a Northfield form. But if we look harder, things get a little more strange. The TC barlows are offered with both standard nail nicks AND the longpull and swedges that are normally reserved for Northfield versions. And the #77s have never really seen a Tidioute finish.

The easy response is to say this is because an individual paid for the tooling to be created, which is why Charlie Campagna has control over the TCs and Mike Latham over the NFs. But, still, there could have been a TC version of the #15 and a NF version of the #15. And the tooling for the bolster could have worked with both, only the engraving (or stamp?) would have been different. Same with the 77. I find it interesting that GEC diverted from their normal conventions on this one.

When we consider the #14 barlow and why there's been no SS barlow (a GEC version), the speculation continues. :D
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

Thanks for posting your thoughts on this rather complex situation. I think the "T.C." for the 15's refers to "Tom's Choice", referring to Tom Sawyer.
kj
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by knowtracks »

Actually the "TC" stands for Tidioute Cutlery, Roland. If you go over to Bladeforums (yes I know) and read the first page of Charlie's "What makes a good Traditional Barlow" thread you will see. The "TC" bolster was the first thing any of the public ever saw of in this saga.

As for the blade shape used on the Ancient Barlow, it came from a Very old Barlow that Charlie has in his collection. It is not exactly a lambsfoot blade as the 2 photos included will show but I do suppose it could be considered a lambsfoot that the cutler simply skipped the step of adding the radius onto the spine of the blade to make the product less expensive. To tell you the truth I hadn't really thought about it before! ::hmm::
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Re: Understanding Pattern #15

Post by kootenay joe »

The first of the Charlie C #15 Barlow came out in 2014 and the pattern name is "Sawyer Barlow" for Tom Sawyer. That is where the confusion must have occurred as i have read the "Tom's Choice" for the TC on bolster quite a few times on BF.
Have there been any #15 Northfield Barlows or GEC Barlows (stainless) ?
kj
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