More Astonishing eBay Seller Shenanigans

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

I get it Q, and I figured that might be your response. I was just trying to show you a different way to look at that knife so you might still be able to enjoy it. I hate to see you miss the enjoyment of owning a knife you did want enough to pay over $200 to get. Don't let the jackass continue to affect you. If the knife was really not worth what you paid because of condition or false statements, that would be a completely different story for me. At this point I would just take my knife and never need to deal with that joker anymore. But, I'm a lover, not a fighter...

[bighomer]

POS is right, thanks for the heads up about this money grubbing slimeball.

[QTCut5]

Crete, Illinois. That's only about an hour and a half from here. PM his address and I'll have some of the boys stop by and persue a discussion of your displeasure with his business dealings.

In case someone takes that seriously, don't.

Ahh, I knew I could count on you to have my back, jerryd. When I saw his address, I made sure to let it be known to all my homies in the land of Lincoln. Hey, you never know how or when you might run into a guy named Louis Jamison someday, but if/when you do, he won't see it coming and he'll never know what hit him (or the horse he rode in on!)


Word of advice to all who sell on eBay: If you're going to be a jerk to your customers, it's probably not wise to put your return (home) address on the packages you ship. The inter-connectivity of the world wide web has made it such that it's very possible the customers you screw over know someone who lives in your same town (or neighborhood). Better watch your back, Louis, 'cause my AAPK buddies got my back covered.


~Q~

(Just kiddin, of course...I'll leave it up to the Universe and karma to properly "reward" him for his behavior. What goes around eventually comes around.)

[bdev]

Can't wait to read your feedback.

[QTCut5]

Wow...just as I had decided to let it go, I got the following messages from louiesedges:

I don't ship the packages my secretary does. I am a life member of the NKCA #724 and the American Blade Collectors and founder of the AECA knife club here in Chicago. I have and impecable reputation in the knife world for the last 38 years. Tell some of the people who know me your accusations and they will get a good laugh out of it. If you want the tin send me by PayPal $25.00 that is what some friends of mine say it is worth and if I had it in the picture on Ebay the price would have made the package more. Whatever else you decide to do, GOOD LUCK!!!!

Then, two minutes later:

Please send it back I don't want you to feel bad. Let's see if you have a set of balls to send it back.


What a gentleman! I guess that explains his feedback score.

And, speaking of "having balls," it takes a very big man to hide behind his secretary and blame her for what was probably a completely innocent and understandable mistake. Mr. NKCA #724 is a real piece of work...indeed, a truly exemplary ambassador for the organization and a sterling representative of American knife collectors.

~Q~

[zzyzzogeton]

On a lighter note about ebay sellers, this is the last line of one particular seller's every auction -

Please bid only if you plan to pay for the above auction. No-pays will be reported to eBay in accordance with the rules. (Winning bidders who fail to fulfill their responsibilities will be stricken with E.D., halitosis, male pattern baldness, and bad Karma for the rest of their life! 8^D )

[QTCut5]

Can't wait to read your feedback.

Since I'm limited to, what is it, something like 80 characters? and I'm not particularly interested in payback or revenge, in my FB I'll simply state the truth: Slow to ship, poor communication, difficult to work with. AVOID THIS SELLER!

But, we all know that eBay feedback is a joke for the most part, so I have no illusions that anything I say will make a significant difference. The real benefit of this experience is in warning the AAPK community so others can avoid having to deal with this horrible seller.

The silver lining of this transaction is that I did end up adding this beautiful Lone Wolf Black Pearl Paul Executive to my collection (albeit without the original knife tin).

~Q~

[robbobus]

Thats a nice knife. I have a LW Defender, also without packaging so it was a user. Had I kept it pristine, if I found the correct packaging, for $25 I would have hit Buy It Now in a heartbeat and increased my investment 50 - 100%. If this situation were in my hands, I would politely accept the sellers offer.

[QTCut5]

Thats a nice knife. I have a LW Defender, also without packaging so it was a user. Had I kept it pristine, if I found the correct packaging, for $25 I would have hit Buy It Now in a heartbeat and increased my investment 50 - 100%. If this situation were in my hands, I would politely accept the sellers offer.

You think an original box increases a knife's value by 50 - 100%? I honestly don't know, maybe to some collectors. I do know, however, that if the knife tin had been included in the original sale it would not have made any difference to me in the amount I was willing to pay for the knife...none whatsoever. At any rate, since I don't expect to ever sell this knife, having the original box is really not an issue for me.

However, even if I wanted the tin for some reason, and I politely accepted his offer as you suggest, I would not trust this seller to politely fulfill his end of the deal. Since he obviously felt no compunction about being rude and dismissive after a $240 sale, why would he be any different on a measly $25 sale? To an honest man of integrity, profits and possessions take a backseat to principles. Were I to continue dealing with this seller after the way he behaved in our initial transaction, essentially, I would be condoning his unacceptable behavior. I can forgive him for it (and I do forgive him--despite his unrepentant attitude), but I refuse to condone it.

As far as I'm concerned, the seller would have gained much more than $25 in value from the box had he sent it to me as a symbolic gesture of good faith after having swindled me (intentionally or otherwise) on the shipping method. There's no telling how many future customers or how much potential revenue he stands to lose from the AAPK members who have chosen not to buy from him now as a direct result of this experience. In a market where it's already difficult to realize much profit, as is the case selling knives on eBay, a seller can ill-afford to alienate an entire segment of potential customers, especially one with a heavy concentration of his specific target demographic such as AAPK. It's just not smart or good for business IMHO.

~Q~

[LanG]

After reading his response to you, I would not do business with this man under any circumstances.

[kootenay joe]

This guy gets off on causing others distress and he just invited you to come for more. Return the knife and then: wait for refund; email "please issue refund"; no replies, etc. Send back the knife and then he has the knife AND your money. Sure ebay or PP will get you your money back eventually, but it involves more of your time.
I might respond to this guy with something like this: "I can see that you enjoy messing people around & frustrating them. You probably have a Personality Disorder. As such i want no more interaction with you of any sort." Then i would leave FB to warn others about his behaviour.
kj

[peanut740]

The guy never did issue me a refund,EBay did.I wasn't able to leave a negative feedback because I was refunded.So I wonder how many others he tried to screw Like me who were refunded?
Someone saying they were a life member of 2 defunct organizations make him a good guy?

[btrwtr]

With statements such as "Please send it back I don't want you to feel bad. Let's see if you have a set of balls to send it back." how could anyone doubt his "impeccable reputation"?

That right there is enough for me to make a business decision.

[QTCut5]

At the risk of ...
...and for anyone who's still interested in following the continuing saga of this absurd soap-opera-like drama, I'll share the messages exchanged between louisedges and me this morning for your amusement and entertainment:

My reply to his earlier messages:

With 38 years of experience in the world of knives you should know that a knife advertised as "mint" means it is exactly as it left the factory. For modern production knives, that typically includes the original container and paperwork.

I don't know what "accusations" you're referring to. My complaint was that you charged for Priority shipping but sent the pkg 1st Class--which you did, it's a fact, not an accusation. It may very well have been an honest mistake, but that's all you needed to say, "I'm sorry for the mistake." Sending me the knife tin would have been a show of good faith and sincerity, but you chose not to (even though I offered to pay the additional shipping cost), which is an indication of your true character.

GOOD LUCK getting $25 for the box; your handling of this situation may end up costing you a lot more than that in lost customers and potential future sales. However, since you belong to knife collector organizations and have your own circle of associates in Chicago, you probably won't ever even notice any negative effects on your knife sales. Only two people will be left with a negative feeling as a result of this incident: you and I. It's a shame too, since it could just as easily have had a positive outcome that may have led to more business between us in the future. It's hard to place a monetary value on a positive business relationship, but on a negative relationship the net value is always zero (or less).

Then, I explained my intentions regarding the knife and his "challenge" to my courage to return it:
(Admittedly, this was probably a mistake on my part, but I wasn't going to take his insinuations lying down)

Thank you for your concern. I assure you, however, that I don't feel bad about the knife. It's a beauty and a wonderful addition to my knife collection.

With regard to having "a set of balls" all I will say is that it takes a particularly small set for a man to hide behind and blame his secretary when a mistake has been made instead of being man enough to admit it and apologize.

louisedges' response:

I talked to her and she broke it down. Handling charge $2.00 and tax charge of 7%. Hope this lets you sleep better at night. Ebay automatically sets the shipping charges, she just goes by there recommendations. You need to contact Ebay.

And, finally, my (last and final) reply:

You're still missing the point, Louie...I really couldn't care less how much the shipping charge was (and BTW, sellers can charge whatever amount they want, it's not automatically set by eBay), the amount was not the issue. The issue is that in the listing it said "Expedited Shipping--USPS Priority Flat Rate Small Box" but the package was actually shipped USPS First Class Mail. It may not seem like a big difference to you because you don't live in Hawaii and Priority isn't that different from First Class on the mainland. Nevertheless, when you say you're going to use a particular shipping method, and you charge for that service (however much you deem fair including handling and taxes), then you really ought to use the method you said and not change shipping methods and use a cheaper, slower and less secure method.

He left this feedback for me regarding the actual transaction:

Buyer did not comprehend value of packaging and paper work of knife bought.

And along with "Negative" for the overall experience and 1 star in the appropriate categories (shipping cost & seller's communication), I left this FB for him:

Seller Charged Priority Shipped 1st cl-No Tracking #-Poor Communication-Not Cool

Hopefully, this will be the end of it. And it definitely is for me, regardless of whether or not he responds.

porkypig.jpg (15.99 KiB) Viewed 2626 times

~Q~

[philco]

Q I'd just look at it this way; for less than $5 you were able to find out that the seller is a true slimebag and not a person you'll ever want to do business with again. More often than not, it costs a lot more than that to gain such valuable information.

PS I think you've handled this situation quite well.

[kootenay joe]

QT, you say: "But, we all know that eBay feedback is a joke for the most part"
I find seller's FB helpful.
I read any negative FB within the last 12 months. Sometimes it is just a buyer being unreasonable but with others you can clearly feel the buyer's frustration and this is a red flag to me. How much do i want the item ? enough that it is worthwhile dealing with a difficult person ?
I also read positive FB looking for buyer enthusiasm, not simply "ya, o.k."
I have decided to not bid on a number of occasions after this type of FB checking.
kj

[QTCut5]

Thanks Phil.

KJ - Your point is well-taken; FB is not entirely without value from a buyer's perspective. When I said FB was a joke "for the most part" I meant in terms of having any significant effect on the seller as far as changing his attitude or actions or eBay meting out some type of sanction, punishment or penalty. In the past, if a seller got a certain amount of negative feedback, eBay raised their sellers fees, but I don't know if it was raised enough to make any appreciable difference or if that's even still the case. Personally, I rarely bother to read a seller's feedback if they're selling a knife I really want--and in the instance that spawned this thread, I doubt it would have made any difference in my decision to buy from him since the majority of louiesedges FB is positive.

Fortunately, this incident was a relatively rare occurrence for me. The vast majority of my eBay transactions have taken place without any negative issues to speak of. Although many people have complained about it, and as a seller, I too have felt it was somewhat lopsided, I can understand why eBay has created a culture that tends to favor and protect the buyer over the seller. Although it's true that buyers can sometimes be unreasonably demanding and excessively picky, if they don't feel safe sending their money to complete strangers, they won't do it. And consumer spending is the basic engine that drives the whole market. Overall, I feel that eBay has done a pretty good job of creating a fair, safe and equitable system that allows common people to buy and sell in a global market.

I'm sure many will disagree with me; but, in my opinion, most of the problems stem from greedy or unscrupulous sellers who resent having to share the profits and pay the required fees or who try to deceive buyers by failing to fully disclose all pertinent issues and information about the condition of an item for sale. I myself am no exception; although I'm always honest and upfront about the condition of the knives I offer for sale, I have personally endeavored to find legal loopholes and/or ways to 'ethically' circumvent the system to avoid paying the piper. But, once a seller accepts the fact that selling on eBay is not necessarily a road to guaranteed profits, the system seems to work pretty well for all parties concerned. And, to be perfectly honest, although over the years I have been using it I have both vastly overpaid for knives as well as scored some amazing bargains, my knife collection wouldn't be a fraction of what it is today without eBay. And for that I am very grateful. As a seller, I have resigned myself to playing the game as it is designed and paying the 'troll toll' even though it usually means I have to absorb a net loss on most of my sales. Every now and then I turn enough profit to break even which allows me to stay in the game. As always, YMMV.

~Q~

[zzyzzogeton]

QT, thank you for bringing this seller infamy, at least here on AAPK.

His feedback SHOULD be much lower. I actually read through the first 4 pages of his feed back and there were at least 4 feedbacks that were marked as POSITIVE, yet the comments indicated the review should been NEGATIVE.

On the 1st page was a positive feedback, with the comment -

Never buy from this seller.

This comment is why I almost never read the feedbacks, unless the item I want is something I truly want for my collection and they never show up.

I am one of the worst buyers, re: feedbacks as 99% of the time, I just leave the word "arrived".

If I leave real info, almost without exception it is negative.

[kootenay joe]

I have left "positive" FB and then gone on to state the poor service or hassles from seller, etc.
I see this as still alerting potential buyers while not harming the seller's reputation. I do not expect perfection and maybe the seller is having some temporary personal difficulties. Life is often challenging so a measure of compassion is reasonable. I only would leave negative FB if seller persisted in trying to cheat or deceive.
I have bought a sick number of knives on ebay and i have found the vast majority of sellers to be honest and sincerely helpful.
kj

[Tsar Bomba]

If tommygg and the DITWit can get away with half the crap they've gotten away with, I'd think most anything fleabay could serve up would fall short of my bar for "astonishing".

I'll use ebay if I can find a competent and well-reviewed seller with a knife I'm really keen on getting or haven't been able to find previously. But lately I've acquired way more knives through AAPK stores and members. The more AAPK members and sellers we get, the less I seem to need to consult the auction listings at all.

[Shearer]

In the last month I have made two purchases off ebay that have been cancelled by sellers.I paid through PayPal and they just refunded the money.
The first had the item listed at a low price and just stated it was out of stock.
The second had a BIN or offer price.After many messages asking about shipping cost they accepted my offer only to find out that they decided that their quote was wrong.
What annoys me is once they seller have refunded my money without a message telling me why they wish to cancel asking, ebay removes the purchase so you cannot give feedback.
The only message I receive is with the refund from PayPal.
So if you sell a item on ebay and don't like the price just give a refund.

Grant

[just bob]

In the last month I have made two purchases off ebay that have been cancelled by sellers.I paid through PayPal and they just refunded the money.
The first had the item listed at a low price and just stated it was out of stock.
The second had a BIN or offer price.After many messages asking about shipping cost they accepted my offer only to find out that they decided that their quote was wrong.
What annoys me is once they seller have refunded my money without a message telling me why they wish to cancel asking, ebay removes the purchase so you cannot give feedback.
The only message I receive is with the refund from PayPal.
So if you sell a item on ebay and don't like the price just give a refund.

Grant

The same thing has happened to me and it makes me mad as fire. You can leave them bad feedback - Go to My Ebay - account - look on the left side of the screen there is a header for feedback. Click on that and all of your transactions are there. I think ebay wants to minimize negative feedback because they lose money in the long run and they make it harder to do in situations like this. I did leave negative feedback both times the sellers cancelled the auction on me after bidding ended.

[zzyzzogeton]

I purchased a knife from the ebay seller "fuddlebucks" via a Buy It Now auction.

A couple of days later, I got a message from ebay that the seller had refunded my money "per buyer's request", which was a damn lie since I had never requested such an action.

Never was able to find a way to leave negative feedback on the transaction with fuddlebucks.

I just know I will never buy anything from fuddlebucks and will bad mouth fuddlebucks every chance I get.

Per customer service training long years ago, I was taught that a happy customer tells an average 3 people about the experience, while an unhappy customer will tell an average of 18.

I skew that last number. I'm still bad mouthing American Express Credit Cards since 1979, when they declined to issue me a credit card solely on the excuse that they did not mail credit cards to APO/FPO addresses. I still mail their credit card offers back as an empty envelope to get them to pay the USPS postage for an empty envelope.

[1967redrider]

This seller accepted my counter-bid offer on a Buy It Now item, then hours later refunded my money stating, "a relative already sold this and I didn't know about it."

I gave negative feedback but he/she probably doesn't care.

[catspa]

But lately I've acquired way more knives through AAPK stores and members. The more AAPK members and sellers we get, the less I seem to need to consult the auction listings at all.

I agree. My purchases from AAPK sellers have been 100% positive as well. Thanks Jeff, Cal, Cody, Jamie, Rich, and anybody else who doesn’t come to mind right now. You guys have been great to deal with.

Parker