NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

The Camillus Cutlery Company was one of the oldest knife manufacturers in the United States with roots dating back to 1876. The company manufactured Camillus branded knives and was a prolific contractor for other knife brands up until its last days in 2007 when the company filed for bankruptcy.
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

I thought I would share a preview of coming Camillus history.
Recently I won a 1976 Camillus catalog on ebay. Larry Vickery very generously volunteered to cover half the cost, which was very nice as it ended up being the most expensive knife catalog I have bought to date.
I will have it copied and get the disc off to Larry so he can post it on Collectors of Camillus with all the other catalogs we have been able to get a hold of; http://www.collectors-of-camillus.us/

This catalog is a bit special because it the year of Camillus’ Centennial and the USA Bicentennial. This is the front cover of the catalog.
Camillus catalog cover 1976.jpg
This is a shot of another page I found very interesting.
Camillus catalog page 1976.jpg
This page shows old Camillus ads from their first 100 years. I especially liked the stainless steel ad: “Slice off that chaw with a stainless tobacco blade.”
I would like to see pics of a SHIELD BRAND STAINLESS knife if anyone has one. I don’t think I have ever seen one.

If you have any of the old brands mentioned on this page of old ads please post pics of the knives. Sword Brand we have seen, but SHIELD BRAND STAINLESS, STAINLESS SPORTSMAN are ones I have not seen, if they were branded with those names.
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by Miller Bro's »

orvet wrote:If you have any of the old brands mentioned on this page of old ads please post pics of the knives. Sword Brand we have seen, but SHIELD BRAND STAINLESS, STAINLESS SPORTSMAN are ones I have not seen, if they were branded with those names.
I have some of these, sorry no pictures at this time :(
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

We are patient. We can wait for a couple minutes. :mrgreen:
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by travman »

Here are a couple of the Camillus made Stainless Cutlery co
The first is a 3-3/8" senator with the Stainless bar shield
and fluted bolsters
the second is a 3-3/8" jack with the Stainless crest shield
also with fluted bolsters
The third is a 3-3/8"senator with the Stainless bar shield
in a darker bone handle.
These are not very easy to find,the jack was the more difficult one
I also have a Stainless Scout knife that needs a pin on the main
pivot end ,i can take pictures of it if you would like to see it

Trav
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

Awesome Trav! ::tu:: ::tu:: ::drool::
According to the Kastor list that was linked in the Knife World article the Stainless Cut Co brand was made for Shumate Cut Co and for HS&B. From that I would take it that they were not marketed as a Camillus brand.
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by travman »

Thanks Dale
i have been searching the last couple days for an
article that i read stating that Camillus tried to sell the Stainless knives as
their own brand ,but was ended quickly because at the time it hurt their
SALES for the Camillus Brand .Seems buyers were thinking all Camillus knives were
now being made with stainless steel?If i can find it again i will post it.

Trav
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

travman wrote:Thanks Dale
i have been searching the last couple days for an
article that i read stating that Camillus tried to sell the Stainless knives as
their own brand ,but was ended quickly because at the time it hurt their
SALES for the Camillus Brand .Seems buyers were thinking all Camillus knives were
now being made with stainless steel?If i can find it again i will post it.

Trav
Thanks Trav, I would like to see that article.
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by travman »

Dale
I havent found the article about Camillus and the Stainless Cutlery yet
but i did come across an article about Queen stamping their knives stainless
and it not working well, so i am thinking that is the article i read and confused it with Camillus
i will keep searching for the article about Camillus but for now i will assume i made a mistake
in my previous post
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

No problem Trav.
The details get blurry in my head too! ::shrug::
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by trutemper »

This is a great thread Dale and I really appreciate all of your hard work and will be frequenting this forum a lot as time allows. Camillus has made a lot of fine cutlery through the years and I`ll be getting a few photos of some in my collection (stainless cutlery, syracuse cutlery, & related Camillus brands)and post when I can. Thanks again.

Bob
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by ironmage »

Miller Bro`s wrote:Very interesting stuff Dale!

I just found this thread, I can`t believe no one else posted here in a month ::shrug::

This is the information I like about knives and the companies that made them.

I will help if I can. Do you know how many different variations of the Camillus stamp was used up to the end of WW II?

Dimitri
The Dunlap stamp was used from 38 to 42.They where in to so many different brand names it is going to be tough.The did make grate knives.Thanks for all the information guy's.
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

One of our members, gringo, posted this link in another forum.
I thought Camillus collectors would enjoy the link.

Some of these I have posted before, but some are ones I don't have copies of.
It pertains to Camillus knives made for the US Military during WW II.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/39088889/Cami ... 41-to-1946
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by Vit_213 »

Dale! I'm surprised!
This document already 2 years present on the Larry Vickery site - http://www.collectors-of-camillus.us/Hi ... -1945s.pdf
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

No Vit, I had not seen that.
I have not sent Larry any new catalogs in a couple years due to health problems, both mine and my wife.
I have not even been able to work on knives or keep up with all the forums I would like to.
I have to go to the surgeon next month to set up another surgery. I hope that will be the last surgery I have to have for a long time.

I have a few of those copies that Tom sent me, plus a bunch more.
I need to organize them and send them to Larry.


Getting old is so time consuming; doctor appointments, surgeries, it takes twice as long to do simple things and naps. All these things take up my time.








But most of my time is spent looking for the thing I just had in my hand 2 minutes ago and now I can't find! ::dang::
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by Vit_213 »

Newspaper article from Tom Williams
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Post by singin46 »

Thanks for going to the trouble Dale, this is some great reading. ::tu::
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Post by jerryd6818 »

Camillus History.JPG
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

Tom Williams (CAMCO) contacted me recently about getting his password reset for AAPK so he could log in.
He has some information he wants to post here.

We exchanged a few emails and spoke on the phone today.
Here is an excerpt from one of his emails to me. In this excerpt he discusses Camillus tang stamps and how unreliable it is to try to date Camillus knives by the tang stamp.
After reading what he wrote I think you will understand that dating Camillus knives by the tang stamp is very unreliable.


From Tom Williams-
I was thinking about our conversations about dating Camillus knives by the tang stamps. I think the best way to describe the way that Camillus used the different stampings is to say that they overlapped. A new tang stamp would be introduced while older stampings were still in use. A new stamping may be introduced when a new line of knives was first offered or an old tang stamp wore out. Usually there were no records to indicate when stampings were changed. Sometimes a run of knives were produced and more than one tang stamp may show up on the knives. There may have been a shortage of blades to complete an order so a box of blades with an older tang stamp may be used.

The all stainless steel 4 blade camp knives (MIL-K knives or model #S1760 knives) had the years stamped on them and the new stamp with the new year was used when older blades were used up or the stamp wore out. We rarely started using the new blades in January of a new year when blades were left from the previous year. Take a year like 2002 and we may have not used the correctly stamped 2002 blades until April or May after all the 2001 blades were used up. I would check every year to see when the new stampings were first used and I can not remember the exact year, but one time we did not change over until September. I kept track of the change because knife collectors would want the new year knives when they first were manufactured. That probably happened because in November or December of 2001 a run of 100,000 blades was produced. Enough to finish up the production needs of 2001 plus many more than was needed. I hope this helps explain the use of tang stamps. .

Remember when the older knives were made there was not many knife collectors as there are today. During WWII the objective was to get the knives made and shipped to the servicemen that needed them as soon as possible. Interest in collecting WWII military knives came long after the war was over. Because of shortages and rationing, whatever was available was used.



For those of you who do not know Tom he worked for Camillus for 30 years, until the factory closed.
His mother worked for Camillus for 55 years, so you could say Tom was born & raised at Camillus.

Tom also shared with me some exciting projects he has been working on.
I won’t spoil his surprise; I will let him share it with you when he is ready. It is really neat! ::ds::
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

Here is a tidbit of Camillus history that Tom Williams sent me.
I had never stopped to think about how many times per day a knife inspector would have to open and close knives. No doubt they open and closed thousands of blades each and every day. It only takes one stiff blade to rip your thumbnail off and if that is your primary tool for opening & closing blades, you would be in a world of hurt, quite literally!

It only makes sense to me that the inspectors would use knife openers.
It also makes sense that they would be bigger than the little ones you see given out by different knife companies.

From Tom Williams:
“I found these knife openers today and I thought that you would like to see them. We used these at the Camillus factory and they were a common item that was made in-house. They were usually made from a paring or steak knife that was cut down to the right length. I got these from a lady that I worked with at Camillus. When you work in a knife factory many of the employees wore gloves and this required a knife opener. The inspectors would open thousands of knives a day and one of these was a necessity.”
Knife Openers from Camillus Factory Workers a.jpg
Knife Openers from Camillus Factory Workers b.jpg

Thanks for sharing these Tom.
I love these little insights into what life was like working at Camillus!
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Post by jerryd6818 »

Thanks for posting those insights, Dale. Little historical nuggets like that are fascinating.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

Tom has been mailing me some blueprint drawings from the Camillus factory.
I want to start a Camillus Research Section to put the knives in, but here is a rather cool tool Camillus made for the US Government.
It was used for recessed head aviation fasteners.
Fastner Key (Aviation).jpg
We used the same sort of fasteners on the Gas Turbine pods that housed the start units for the F-4 Phantoms.
The Phantoms did not have an on-board start unit. They were started by trailer or pod mounted gas turbine engines (basically a small jet engine about 5 or 6 feet long). If the Phantom was flying into a field that did not have a Ground Support Equipment unit that kept the gas turbine start units, they had to put a pod mounted gas turbine under the wing so they could start the Phantom when they were ready to leave.

The pods and much of our gear Ground Support Equipment (GSE in the Marine Corps) gear used the same recessed head aviation fasteners that were used on aircraft. GSE was n=known as MARS in the USAF and the Navy called it Yellow Gear because of the color scheme used on aircraft carriers.

We used the same sort of fastener keys as those made by Camillus. That was over 40 years ago, so for all I remember our fastener keys may have been made by Camillus.

It is really cool to see the blueprints of tools we used in the Marine Corps!
Thanks for sharing these Tom!
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by singin46 »

Here is a gently used Camco knife card from the late 1950s, can anyone name these 4 guys?
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by mickeyevans »

Hi Dale, great thread
I always see your signature claim about pattern 72 being perfect so I had to get one
here is the bay photo, claim is red bone, not delrin, we shall see when I get it
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Re: NUGGETS OF CAMILLUS HISTORY FOR CAMILLUS ENTHUSIASTS

Post by orvet »

Nice full blades on that knife Mick, but I think that one is Delrin.
I think from looking at the smooth parts of the handles near the bolsters that it is Delrin and not bone.
When you get the knife in hand, look at the smooth spots with 15X magnification or more. If the surface is smooth it is Delrin, if you see little pores and crazing (looks like tiny random cracks) then it is bone.

Either way you have a nice knife with full blades and an excellent candidate for a rehandle with bone.
It is a great excuse to learn how to repair your knives. :mrgreen:
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