OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this knife?

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OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this knife?

Post by PA Knives »

Here is my latest purchase and I am VERY proud of it. It is related to S&M from Titusville. I know the history but do any of you. I have only seen two other of these in my 30 years. Enjoy and I hope to here more.

The name on the blade is Chris Wolfe. All steel construction with wood handles. Rough but what a find.
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Post by jonet143 »

chris wolf was a foreman for s&m. designed knives? one of the s&m house brands. all i think i know. ::shrug::

that is a nice old knife.
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Post by upnorth »

PA, the back cut of the tang looks Sheffield. Can you show us more of the knife to help us with your "quiz"???
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Post by PA Knives »

HI!

I can post more photo's but it really isn't a quiz. This is a knife made by Wolf who was part of S&M. If you read Kraus's "Dollar KNife" book it speaks of Wolf and the directors of the plant. He was instrumental in the latter production, but it is odd that he had his own knives. The ones that I have seen have been the same knife. I don't beleive he made anyother pattern???? Glad some one enjoyed this old knife as much as me. I really like becuase of the old style and HEAVY construction.

thanks
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Post by sunburst »

Great looking knife PA thanks for sharing her with us...

What period of time are we talking if S&M was started around 1896??

Thanks,

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Post by PA Knives »

this was towards the end of the S&M rien. Wolf became president for a period of time. If you read Kraus's book it gives more detail. I spoke with David Clark who helped write the book too and he found the only other one that I could phyiscally see "knife that is" I saw one on ebay about three years ago. went very high. I would love to know more about this story sometime. Did he really make them? I think maybe so as they are big heavy knives that aren't really pretty but really well made. It looks more like the old Beaver Falls knives than anything else.
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Post by stockman »

Hello PA, That is a neat old knife, the kind of stuff I look for. It is different you don't see knives like this very often and most of the time they are not very expensive. I have finally learned to put this kind of knife away and not be temped to sell. I would enjoy seeing more pics also.

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Post by upnorth »

Yes, PA, please treat us to a couple more pictures. Maybe next to a known size knife and/or a ruler so we can get an idea of proportions!
Thanks in advance; If you can't own one, seeing a good pic is educational!
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Post by PA Knives »

I got out the photo box and took this photo. I am not much for the glamour shots. I like clean clutter free photo's for research and review. I wouldn't make a good red carpet photographer. Clean and simple for me.

enjoy this 4 1/2" heavy well made knife
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Post by PA Knives »

Here is another.
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Post by nifbuf »

Hello,
I just joined the forum, having been a reader for sometime now. This post caught my eye and maybe I can add to the mystery of this Chris Wolf knife. I also have a couple of this knife ands one with a blade stamping of Jess Crouch. Wolf was a senior manager at S&M but I don't know just what oposition he held of when. We do know something about Crouch. David Krauss noted in his book the Crouch started out with S&M in Gowanda, NY in 1898, moved to Titusville when the company moved. He died in 1921. I will post a photo of the Crouch knife. You will notice that in the picture there is heavy stamp that was used to stamp the blade. That stamp is still in Queen factory. I took the photo in 2005.
My speculation only, but think these knives must have been made by some of the officers at S&M and possibly given to friends. They are heavy as PA described, the blade and spring being about 5/32" thick. Walnut handles. No nail pull. 4 1/2" long closed. Probably made between 1910 and the start of WWI, I am guessing.

David Krauss and I found a little more history about Morgan and Crouch and a tie to Atlanta and the Dollar Knife Companies. I will will c paste the info below:



Jay Rudasill
Schatt & Morgan Cutlery Company


The Titusville Herald August 2, 1918: newspaper article - at a Board of Directors meeting of the Schatt & Morgan Cutlery Company, Charles B. Morgan was elected President and Jay Rudasill of Atlanta was elected as Vice President. One year later in August 2, 1919 he was listed as both Vice President and Director.

The Titusville Herald May 2, 1921: newspaper article – The interest of the late J. V. Couch was purchased by Charles B. Morgan and Jay Rudasill of Atlanta Georgia. Mr. Rudasill, who was Vice President, will become President of the company and Mr. Morgan, who was President will succeed Mr. Couch as secretary-treasure and will also be General Manager. Earl E. Highhouse has been chosen Vice President.

So here is some detail about Jay Rudasill: The first listing in the Atlanta City Directories was in 1915, traveling salesman living at 68 Druid Circle, Atlanta. There is no mention of any specific companies he was associated with. He was listed as a traveling salesman every year after that until 1934 where he was listed as a station attendant.

He most certainly was a sales representative for S&M, and probably a very good one having gained the position as Vice President by 1918 and President in 1921. For 18 years he was involved with the S&M Company from it's heydays to it demise in 1933.

He certainly had to have had an association with Paul W. Jones during the time that Jones got the Dollar Knife Trademark and S&M made the Dollar Knife Corporation, Atlanta knives. Rudasill must have been Jones’ connection to S&M and since Rudasill was a traveling salesman he may have been the "idea man" for the development of the Dollar Knife idea, even with Theo M. Green in Oklahoma. We may never know for sure.

Rudasill was a contemporary of Morgan, J. V. Crouch and had to know the key people that left S&M to start Queen City.

In 1921 Rudasill was listed with a wife named Della. They were listed every year after that together living at 68 Druid Circle until 1949. There was no listing after that.

1944 Rudasill was a clerk at the Merchant Salvage Co., 1947 he was an apartment manager.

David Clark, Nov. 2005

The notes above may be full of more question and answers but I thought this info would be of interest.
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Wolf and Crouch 1.jpg
Jess Crouch 1.jpg
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Post by PA Knives »

NOW that's what I talking about,
GREAT stuff. thank you so much for the additional info. I would love to find one with Crouch on it. Someday I hope. PLease say Hi to the Two David's for me. Please add more of your knowledge to this site. I for one really appreciate it.

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Post by upnorth »

Truly astounding nifbuf, and PA! Those pieces of cutlery history have a magical aura that makes life worth living!!!! They warm the cockles of my antique knife-loving heart!!!
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by Unk »

Got this one in the mail today.....I have been looking for a Wolf or a Crouch for a while. It measures about 4 & 3/8 closed.

This may be my new favorite!
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by Owd Wullie »

NICE!! ::tu::

Never seen one with a lanyard hole. Makes sense as big as those things are.

Fun to open with no nail nick too, eh?
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by Knife Nut »

About a year ago there was a Wolf knife came up for auction on this site via the Johnnie Fain auction. I could kick my own butt that I missed out on that purchase.

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by Unk »

Yes, Paul, I could kick myself for missing that one as well. Guess I need to pay more attention!

Willie,

I noticed that Pa Knives posting (on page 1) showed a Jess Crouch knife with a lanyard hole, along with two Chris Wolf knives without a lanyard hole. Makes me think the hole on the Jess Crouch knives are "from the factory". ......and I just found this old link showing a Jess Crouch knife with a bail on it. I guess mine and Pa's may be missing the bail....

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... lit=crouch
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by Unk »

I did a little research on ancestry.com today on Jess Crouch - here is what I found.....

Jesse Crouch – born in Pennsylvania – probably Warren County - in July 1865 - Son of George & Drucilla (Buell) Crouch
1870 – Warren Co., PA – Jesse is 4 yrs old. George is listed as a Carpenter.
1880 – Warren Co., PA – Jesse is 15 years old – George is listed as a Carpenter.
(1890 Census was burned up in a fire in 1921.)
He married Viola (?) in 1892
His son John V. Crouch was born Oct 29, 1893.
1900 – Erie Co., New York - 34 yrs old – married to Viola – son John V. (6 yrs old) is listed . Jess’s occupation is “bookkeeper”. Gowanda, where Schatt & Morgan was founded in 1892 – is in Erie Co., NY. Schatt and Morgan moved to Titusville, Crawford Co., PA around 1895-1902? (I have seen both dates listed)
His son Richard C. was born about 1905.
1910 – Crawford Co., PA – 46 yrs old – married to Viola. Occupation is “bookkeeper”
1920 - Crawford Co., PA – 54 yrs old – married to Viola – Occupation is “Manager – Owner Cutlery”
I believe he died in 1921.
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by knifegirl888 »

That's cool that you were able to research about Crouch. Bret888 & I have a Chris Wolf knife. We were lucky to find it in a "lot" on ebay. It wasn't very well advertised at all.


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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by PA Knives »

I don't want to say that it is written in stone, "that gets me in trouble" but it appears that only Crouch knives have the lanyard hole in them. At least that seems to be the what i have witnessed.

For those of you that don't have one of these knives, let me say you are missing out on an extermely heavy and well built tool. Nothing fancy but thick blades, serious snap and made for heavy use. I now own both as a part of my extensive PENNSYLVANIA related cutlery items.

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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by Unk »

Thanks Knifegirl.

Jess Crouch was pretty easy to find and research - I found all of the above in about 30 minutes. Chris Wolf, other hand.....that guy must have been a ghost. I can't find anything on him, other than what is on this board and another knife forum.
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by Unk »

I haven't had much time to collect pocketknives this year - most of my funds have gone towards sprucing up an old M1 Garand and an AK (SAR-1). You never know when the zombie apocolypse is gonna hit - lol.

I was perusing e-bay a couple of weeks ago when I saw one of these - they don't come up for auction very often, so when they do, I figure you gotta get it then or never (or at least wait a long time). This one cost me about double the first one, so I guess some of you guys were paying attention. :wink:

The one with the dark brown handles is the new one.

Anyway, I have a pair of Jess Crouch bookends now. Maybe one of these days I'll find me a Chris Wolf.....
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by knifegirl888 »

UNK,

Nice catch! :mrgreen:
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by knifeaholic »

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... _500wt_949

I saw the above knife on Ebay...interesting that it was in the old Sears catalog!!!
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Re: OK Schatt and Morgan people, know the history of this kn

Post by Bret888 »

That is interesting! I had no idea they were sold by Sears. I wonder now, that since they were "probably the ugliest looking knife on the market", they chose not to put S&M on them?
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